I have no issue with oral sex between consenting adults. But this meme would not be as well received if the genders were reversed. It’s hard to even imagine someone posting “always be there for your man in a time of crisis” with the woman going down on the guy.
The reason why it’s taboo if the genders were reversed is because there is a long and well documented history of non-consent when genders are reversed.
Was there non-consent where gals are forcing guys? Very likely. However what evidence I’ve seen suggests this is dwarfed by guys forcing gals.
Fair enough, I admit that norms change depending on where you’re posting online. Norms on 4chan vs Reddit will differ wildly. But I don’t think that a post with the genders reversed would do so well here on Lemmy in a general sub like !memes. So maybe I’ve overstated the point but my main criticism remains the same.
The difference is always that men (usually) have the strength to force themselves on women, the latter don’t. If this guy didn’t want to go down on her, he could just stop.
Yes, I suppose if you ignore every single bit of the last few hundred years worth of context, it would be hard to understand why people might be ok with this, but not necessarily the reverse.
Fortunately that context is available to you, so what I have trouble understanding is why you’re not accounting for that. Maybe you could elaborate, or perhaps do some perspective taking on why historically oppressed groups have certain sensitivities that privileged groups do not have. You might even come to realize that treating everyone exactly the same after not doing so for a very long time doesn’t come across as terribly fair. Because, you know, it isn’t.
You’ve conceded my point that it would be insensitive if we reversed the genders. So now the question is whether it is okay for us to show women doing something to men in cases where we are not comfortable with men doing that same action to women.
And here I’m going to respectfully disagree. I do not agree with your claim that being a part of a more historically oppressed group comes with a different set of standards for behavior. This is like saying its fine for obese people to make fun of skinny people–but not vice versa–because the obese people have more often been marginalized in society. We wouldn’t accept that reasoning in the case of body type and we also shouldn’t accept it in the case of gender.
So now the question is whether it is okay for us to show women doing something to men in cases where we are not comfortable with men doing that same action to women.
I think what you actually are aiming at is the question: Why is this meme upvoted? And why do you think the meme with reversed genders wouldn’t be?
The implication is that, yes, the same parity of standards should hold across groups. I myself am both religious and a racial minority (in the US) and I would not do anything to a white atheist that I wouldn’t want them to do to me.
Note that I’m not saying that everyone should behave the exact same no matter what their background. I’m saying that behavior that is judged to be good or bad for one group should also be judged the same way for another group. There are some philosophical reasons behind this claim (I’m essentially denying moral relativism) but I don’t want to derail the conversation.
IMO either party doing this is fine as long as it’s discussed and within the comfort bounds of the people in the relationship.
I think the problem is an expectation when there has been no discussion about whether or not it’s within someone’s limits.
I have no issue with oral sex between consenting adults. But this meme would not be as well received if the genders were reversed. It’s hard to even imagine someone posting “always be there for your man in a time of crisis” with the woman going down on the guy.
I can only speak for myself but I wouldn’t really mind it the other way around as long as there’s no implied use of force or manipulation.
Feel free to reverse the genders & post this on twitter then. Getting banned from the internet speedrun any%
Twitter = the internet
Removed by mod
I believe “consenting” is key here.
The reason why it’s taboo if the genders were reversed is because there is a long and well documented history of non-consent when genders are reversed.
Was there non-consent where gals are forcing guys? Very likely. However what evidence I’ve seen suggests this is dwarfed by guys forcing gals.
Removed by mod
Fair enough, I admit that norms change depending on where you’re posting online. Norms on 4chan vs Reddit will differ wildly. But I don’t think that a post with the genders reversed would do so well here on Lemmy in a general sub like !memes. So maybe I’ve overstated the point but my main criticism remains the same.
Well that’s just because you don’t checks notes come from a heavy kink community background
Different “strokes” for different folks, my friend.
im gonna post a reversed version of this im really curious what’ll happen
part of the joke is the reversal of the stereotype.
breaking stereotypes = good
enforcing stereotypes = bad
The difference is always that men (usually) have the strength to force themselves on women, the latter don’t. If this guy didn’t want to go down on her, he could just stop.
In broad strokes.
Yes, I suppose if you ignore every single bit of the last few hundred years worth of context, it would be hard to understand why people might be ok with this, but not necessarily the reverse.
Fortunately that context is available to you, so what I have trouble understanding is why you’re not accounting for that. Maybe you could elaborate, or perhaps do some perspective taking on why historically oppressed groups have certain sensitivities that privileged groups do not have. You might even come to realize that treating everyone exactly the same after not doing so for a very long time doesn’t come across as terribly fair. Because, you know, it isn’t.
You’ve conceded my point that it would be insensitive if we reversed the genders. So now the question is whether it is okay for us to show women doing something to men in cases where we are not comfortable with men doing that same action to women.
And here I’m going to respectfully disagree. I do not agree with your claim that being a part of a more historically oppressed group comes with a different set of standards for behavior. This is like saying its fine for obese people to make fun of skinny people–but not vice versa–because the obese people have more often been marginalized in society. We wouldn’t accept that reasoning in the case of body type and we also shouldn’t accept it in the case of gender.
I think what you actually are aiming at is the question: Why is this meme upvoted? And why do you think the meme with reversed genders wouldn’t be?
I bet you want to tell us.
Would you say the same if we were talking about religions or races instead of genders?
The implication is that, yes, the same parity of standards should hold across groups. I myself am both religious and a racial minority (in the US) and I would not do anything to a white atheist that I wouldn’t want them to do to me.
Note that I’m not saying that everyone should behave the exact same no matter what their background. I’m saying that behavior that is judged to be good or bad for one group should also be judged the same way for another group. There are some philosophical reasons behind this claim (I’m essentially denying moral relativism) but I don’t want to derail the conversation.
deleted by creator