I was on a contract for the government when my company hired a really good DBA. He hated dressing up. He was introduced at a meeting and wore a polo shirt, which I thought was fairly professional.
Government contracting guy said to wear a tie.
Next meeting, he wore a tie around his polo shirt.
He was fired on the spot.
There are times I fucking hate the government and this was one of those times.
The guy was fucking amazing. But my company fired him because the government didn’t want someone so sloppy on the team.
Those same government agencies then turn around and hire my company to pull them out of the fire after they royally fuck everything up. We charge a fuck ton, will never go onsite, and they should consider themselves lucky if the engineer is wearing pants.
no pants is okay so long as there’s a tie somewhere in the outfit
just not on a polo
No underwear is ok so long as you’re wearing a top hat.
sloppy
in actual work ethics as well or just in perceived social/office norms?
Mostly the latter.
Honestly no database admin is anywhere near that level of “fuck you” influence in any organization. We are more talking about the guy whose name is on all the patents and who is putting together the tech demos which win the big money contracts.
This explains a lot about why government sites are such garbage.
Government sites are garbage for a lot of reasons, mostly due to old people not understanding how the Internet works and they’d rather build a camel than a horse.
Plus on many occasions they go with the lowest bidder for the sake of appearances. I remember a company I used to work for went with a very unrealistic low bid to get their foot in the door and then get the maintenance contract that came after implementation.
The project went as well as you’d expect with such a low budget. Experienced people left due to long working hours, unrealistic client expectations and no budget for any quality of life improvements available (I was one of them). The company lost the maintenance bid and will likely lose the best people they still have to the new company taking over the contract.
Government contracting is a fucking racket. Especially at federal level because the government is allowed to go over the contract budget by I think 25% so every fucking company that bids knows they are going to get that amount more than their bid.
Not only that, but because of how the procurement process works, they aren’t going to rebid the contract if you mess up.
Contractors don’t save the government any money. It privatizes government functions and makes a few people rich while taking away good jobs and benefits.
That’s ridiculous. I’ve worked as a government contractor for almost 15 years and the most strict I’ve seen the dress code be is “no shorts, collared shirt required.” Hell, at some sites I’ve worked the dress code has been basically “wear clothes.”
I’ve been to meetings where the only people not wearing printed tee shirts were the military members who had to be in uniform.
I’ve actually seen this go the other way before.
I met this dude from Serbia, I can’t remember his name, but he was the friendliest guy you’d ever meet, and was probably about 7 foot tall.
One day our infra team was having an issue with a custom Spark cluster, and he was brought in to help. He came in a full suit that looked tailor made, like he’d just walked off the set of Suits, a suited Galdalf in a room of hobbits dressed in t-shirts around a foot or two smaller than him. He was in the room for two hours, and whatever he installed or ran for everything up and running again, with some extra time to help with some other tweaks.
He worked near my desk, so I asked him if he wanted to come for lunch. He declined because he was busy, so I asked if he wanted me to grab him something. His response “…Cherry Coke”. Once he’d finished, he came over to us, and offered to take us out for food. He paid for everything, including a drink at a nearby whiskey bar he apparently goes to often. I asked him why he wore a suit, and his response was “I’m uncomfortable wearing loose clothes, and I like layered clothing that fits to my frame, so I always wear suits when I need to be comfortable”. In many ways, for someone his size, I guess it made sense.
I miss him sometimes, because he’d always say “hello my British friend” every time he saw me nearby, even though we both lived in Britain, and he definitely knew my name. If I had to guess, the dude probably had a solid mil in stock, and was getting paid a solid £150k a year + more stock. He was definitely rich, because he could afford an apartment in central London near the office. Dude worked probably 60-80 hours a week though, and if asked he was on a plane to the US, India, wherever someone needed a freakishly tall suited guy to fix a data problem.
I was hoping this would turn into some nerdy erotica…
Pssh… This guy is chump change, maybe a senior engineer at best. You can tell by his footwear. The really highly paid engineers have Crocs with socks, if any footwear at all. 😆
If i see a man walking around in my office with a grey wizard beard and barefoot, I will auto assume it’s the senior developer and not a homeless dude.
At my last job we had to visit the company financial office to work on their expensing software and the receptionist actually called security because they thought our lead developer was a homeless person who got into the building.
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Audible chuckle
I’m in this comment and I support it.
The really highly paid engineers don’t show up to meetings, they call in via zoom from their home.
I used to wear flip flops to the office quite often, back when I went to the office.
CROCS!? Nah, cheap flip flops he bought 6 years ago with the sole practically worn down to solid sheets of plastic.
Na, it’s jandles (thongs/flip flops).
Always a t-shirt and shorts in summer.
There was a meeting a couple of years ago between my company’s engineers and some NASA representatives. No one in my company really wears suits anymore and the NASA guys complained that it was “unprofessional” to not wear a tie when one of our leads went up to present in just a Tshirt and jeans. After hearing that, the lead went back to his desk and came back with a wooden joke tie hanging around his neck to continue. They stopped criticizing our apparel after that.
I’m interested in knowing what this wooden joke tie looks like
A piece of wood that is roughly tie-shaped attached to a piece of string so the string can be tied around your neck.
Where the heck did this person get a tie shaped piece of wood?
It’s a running joke. Been around a while. I assume people have made some.
Epic
There’s an interesting cultural difference that I’ve observed. My grandpa was a senior engineer and he was proud to dress immaculately. He went to work in a suit and he never wore less than business casual even when going to the beach. I don’t think he owned any shirt that wasn’t a button-up long-sleeve. I’m an engineer (with a different specialty) and I only wear a suit to job interviews. Generally when I’m at work I’m in jeans and a short-sleeved shirt.
I wonder if it’s a matter of generations or countries or both. When and where my grandpa was young, a suit was very expensive and hierarchies were rigid.
I think its generational. I even see the generational differences across my office. when meeting with our customers for formal meetings, the 35+ engineers are in a suit, or at least a blazer. The 20 somethings are wearing torn jeans and burkenstocks
I think at the places where I’ve worked, torn jeans would be a little over the line in the office, although managers who said something about it would be perceived as stuffy. However, I would ask before wearing business casual to a meeting with clients. I would assume that a suit was expected and I think I would be in real trouble if I wore torn jeans.
But then again, I’m 35+ now. Do you work at a small startup?
I work at a daughter company of a bank that develops said bank’s internal software. Torn jeans are A-OK and might only get commented on when visiting the parent company. My team’s architect is virtually never seen without a Chaos Computer Club hoodie.
Earlier in my career I worked for a well-established company in the medical sector. The only person in the company who dressed up was the boss – and only when meeting someone external.
I am 35+ and I’m both companies we had older team members.
Not a small start up by any means. Fortune 500 company
Maybe this says more about me than anything else… But for me, I’d rather be judged by my work than appearance or credentials. The worse I can look in a corporate environment and still maintain a reputation of a great engineer the more authentic I feel my reputation is.
When I retire I aspire to be well respected by everyone in spite of looking like a category 5 dumpster fire.
I’m an engineer (with a different specialty) and I only wear a suit to job interviews.
I’m in a position that does interviews for software engineering. In my entire time working in this field I’ve seen one person wear a suit to an interview. It made them stand out all right, but not in a good way. We all wondered wtf was wrong with that guy after the interview.
Really? Isn’t it normal to wear suits to interviews?
Not in software and website development. It is very out of place.
Not in software development in the US. I wore ripped skinny jeans, converse, and a t-shirt to the most recent in person interview I had. I was hired.
Depends on the position and the company. Ask the HR person or whoever’s scheduling you. If you’ll be meeting with customers like government or finance, they may want to see you in a suit even if you won’t be wearing one every day.
I think it’s 90% because of silicon valley and the tech industry. Software developers often make more than licensed engineers of other disciplines these days, so why would a young engineer model themselves after their professional body and older members instead of the disruptive adjacent industry?
I’m a software engineer myself but I have only ever worked on the east coast. Maybe that’s the difference?
I’m on the east coast myself, in my 40s, also tech (mostly hardware/design, but some software in support of that hw or just doing something experimental).
I will 100% show up with a T-shirt, jeans, and sneakers. If I have a meeting or its the fall/spring, I have a sportjacket, but I’ve admittedly shown up in a zip up hoodie before (though that was specifically in a space I was doing some concepting in, not a boardroom).
Client meetings with their c-suite will get a collar, but its a golf shirt in the summer.
That said, I work from home pretty much exclusively, so its all t-shirts now. I wouldn’t even worry about straight up Donald Duck’ing it if it were more comfortable (its not).
I think its just generational.
Lol I’ve only heard “porky piggin’ it” before!
Idk I’m an industrial engineer and I dress like the workers because it’s comfortable, safe, and shows them I’m not putting myself above them
Most I’ll do for an interview is jeans and dress shoes nowadays. And to be honest, I usually dont bother with the dress shoes.
I only did the suit thing the first few years after college
Im not in the US and here most IT people wear casual. The exception is those in fintech which usually have a more formal dresscode. Im always wearing comfy clothes like cargos and a hoodie… And really i couldnt care less if someone at work didnt like what i wear. Im not there to look pretty for them, im there to make stuff work better and make the company more monkey.
My best t-shirt and best chinos is most you’ll get from me at a job interview. Why would I dress differently than I will on the job?
I was always told that if you dress too well you’ll damage your credibility as an engineer.
Adam sandler looks a bit tired these days
I was going to say Ben Affleck.
I’m literally wondering which one it is. Looks more like Sandler, but not fat enough.
This is Adam Sandler right? The other comments have me confused
He should be removed from his position as Prime Minister.
He’s 58 years old, and isn’t known for his commitment to fitness. He looks pretty good for his age.
Principal engineer outfit…
He’s dressing much nicer than he used to. At least his clothes fit. He used up wear basketball shorts and giant t shirts everywhere
Sounds like business casual to me
Basketball shorts and giant t shirts sounds pretty much like me, though I’m not really the best paid engineer in my company. I might even be the lowest, because everyone else has more experience than me @ 5 years.
Doesn’t the lack of pocket space bother you? I am a cargo shorts forever type of guy…I could and do sleep in cargo shorts from time to time.
I can fit 2 liter water bottles in my pockets. Idk maybe basketball shorts isn’t the correct term. They’re long comfy shorts.
my girlfriend is often baffled by the pocket size on my shorts. i can fit an xbox controller comfortably in my pocket with space for 3 phones
That’s nothing. Back in the 90s, we had JNCO jeans. You could have fit your whole girlfriend in your pockets!
She’d be like "HELP!!! HELP IT’S DARK, AND I’M DANGEROUSLY CLOSE TO THE SCENT OF TEENAGER BOYS BALLS!!!
Because if you were wearing JNCO, you were probably 15, sweaty, and showered once a month. But maaaan. Think of the pocket space!!!
Someone who knows he has job security
Adam Sandler looks great for his age.
I would not have guessed 58 years old.
I stopped dressing to “impress” after about 4 years in my field. The amount of crap I’ve fixed that was done by more tenured/“experienced” people is too much to count.
At this point, I’m wearing what’s comfortable. If you don’t like it, too bad. I’m here because you need me, not because I want to be.
I’m still paid fairly paltry amounts, so I dunno if I’m the “highest paid” person. Management certainly doesn’t listen to me, but they keep signing the cheques. If you want to pay me to tell you about problems so you know about what you’re refusing to do anything about, I’m okay with that. Your company, your decision.
Ours has a coffee stain.
In my experience working in a tech company, seeing someone not dressed like that is the oddity. You know they’re from marketing or finance when you see them.
Also applies to software developers.
Edit before send: just realised you wrote “developers” not “engineers”. (What is the difference?)
I think this mostly applies to software engineers, rather than “regular” engineers. On the topic, am I the only one who thinks people should specify “software”, not just say engineer?
I may be biased, but when someone just answers “engineer” I assume they mean of the “physical” variety (mechanical, civil, structural, chemical, etc), not software.
I mean, I don’t really know how we’re defining an engineer these days, we don’t all work with engines, so I suppose that’s out the window. Just don’t know where we’re drawing the line.
An accountant does problem solving, and takes inputs and outputs to do calculations. Are we calling them money engineers now?
This genuinely confuses me haha
Engineer is a protected title in my country, so most software developers are not legally engineers here. Although in usage the term is often interchanged with “developer” in terms of software.
I once worked on a company that made IT Security products and was located close to a major technical university.
The guys that used to come in very much with that look (though it was sandals and white socks as footware) were all in their 60s, who worked both at that uni and had a side-gig in that company doing programming work in mainframes.
