• RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
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    16 hours ago

    Why is there such an obsession with immigration?

    Do you want to pick strawberries? It’s back-breaking and sucks.

    • TheFriar@lemm.ee
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      2 hours ago

      Why? Because the right was harping on it. So the news covers it. And then “people are talking about it.” And in 2024, that means everyone has to have an opinion it. The right has perfected the weaponization of communication. Fascists are good at that, historically.

    • scarabic@lemmy.world
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      6 hours ago

      Thinking back to the one debate he had with Harris, Trump blathered nonstop about immigration. He talks about it like a wave of moorish invaders sweeping across the land, pillaging. This is obviously a powerful Image if you can get people to believe it. And in some areas people have been feeling like American culture is giving way to Mexican culture as the population in their home towns shifts, so Trump’s rhetoric taps into something that was already there. And if we’re honest, border policy is a weird zone where many of the laws don’t make intuitive sense. America talks out of both sides of its mouth on the issue, historically. A lot of people are here illegally whom we depend on utterly to staff our economy. So their presence is in some way sanctioned, tolerated, but not fully legitimized in law. When someone comes along and articulates one clear direction on immigration, it sounds like someone is speaking clearly for the first time. Even if that direction is stupid, hateful, xenophobic, and economically unviable.

      • RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        I hear what you’re saying. What boring people to be afraid of novel cultures.

        Anyway, fine, close the border and make it so only US citizens can do all the labor nobody wants to do. Watch how much doesn’t get done; the economics behind work and such don’t change rapidly. I’ll bet most small farmers get destroyed with fields full of rotting, previously ready to harvest crops because nobody can offer a citizen enough to do the work, in a way that still yields a profit.

        The billionaires with factory farms and prison labor will likely win out again.

    • VeganCheesecake@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      7 hours ago

      Never liked that argument. It’s essentially “Why, don’t you like immigration, dummy? Don’t you know immigrants are easily exploited to do hard labour cheaply?”

      I’m not saying it isn’t true, especially in the west, but in my eyes, there are much more moral arguments for immigration.

      • stoly@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        Conservatives don’t care about that sort of morals. They only care about what affects them directly. Maybe that means they can’t find tomatoes or apples one day. Then they’ll blame some Democrat for the problem.

      • RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        I agree that it’s low-hanging… nope. Bailing on that one.

        I do think quality farm work is critical for our health as a nation, and I don’t mean economically.

        Can we automate it? Maybe. Till then, someone’s gotta do it, and for those who go into it, there’s gotta be a floor on job quality, seemingly basic things like bathroom and water breaks.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      8 hours ago

      They’re convenient scapegoats that can’t defend themselves. “Look, it’s a witch! Burn it”

      • TranquilTurbulence
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        2 hours ago

        Turns out, if you kick out all the polish nurses and restaurant workers, you suddenly don’t have enough staff in those places. Who would have thought.

        Other than that, everything worked out perfectly. Oh, but then there’s also the Northern Ireland border. Well other than those two issues… actually, there are quite a few issues, but that’s besides the point. It’s been smooth sailing ever since, everyone is happy, it’s never been better.

        • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
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          10 hours ago

          Well they’re all lazy criminal welfare queens who are also taking all of our jobs somehow, don’t you read the right wing propag- I mean, news?

        • Soup@lemmy.world
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          7 hours ago

          They’re different, even if they’re very similar. The important part is that they look different, too, because if you talked about all the white immigrants taking the white-collar jobs people would have to actually think beyond just a face-value assessment. Brown is bad is a lot easier than person over there could be anything so I need to talk to them and form even a basic relationship with them to figure out what’s going on and by then I might not be able to hate them so absolutely.

        • rockerface 🇺🇦@lemm.ee
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          15 hours ago

          Being different is scary enough for those that lack education (either willingly or due to circumstances out of their control)

      • Slag@programming.dev
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        8 hours ago

        That was Florida in recent history, not the dems. “uhh can you latinos come back and work for us again?? no one is filling these jobs as you leave due to the recent legislative hatefest”

        Conservatives don’t realize they have slaves, let alone rely on them. They pound the table about migrants while paying someone employing them to mow their lawn or renovate their house. Press them about it and they always tell you it’s none of their business how the people they contract keep the prices down.

        • Awesomo85@sh.itjust.works
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          3 hours ago

          This sounds a bit anecdotal or even hyperbolic (maybe not the Florida bit, I don’t know I don’t live there so I don’t know what’s going on there).

          …pound the table about migrants…

          Why is it so impossible for this side of the argument to understand that the issue is with illegal migrants taking advantage of the system? You all go so far as to say things like “there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant!”

          Yes. Yes there is. By legal definition there is! And as the son of a legal immigrant, someone who has been directly involved with this system, I absolutely do take issue with this country opening the flood gates to allow skirting of the system. As do MOST legal immigrants as was shown by this election!

          • Slag@programming.dev
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            2 hours ago

            I was referring to illegal migrants, so your rebuttal is a bit of a straw man. This was a reference to the legislation pushed by DeSantis and the republican legislature of Florida that was targeted at undocumented workers. If you don’t understand the connection between Florida and migrant workers in the context of the past two years, I think it’s fairly safe to say that you aren’t following this issue at a national level beyond a drip feed of Fox News or similar.

            The point is that most Americans are too obtuse and/or callous to recognize the role of undocumented workers in their own economy. You were fast to say the dems see them as slaves, but the entire goddamn economy uses them for cheap labor. My mother is as wound up about border crossings and caravans as it gets but still pays someone to have Hispanic men who can’t understand her mowing her lawn. They’re not “her” undocumented workers.

      • RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        Apparently I can’t curse at you & your low energy understanding of the world, last comment removed.

        I stand by what I said before, I believe all workers should be paid fairly, have access to things like bathrooms & water, and be able to easily come and go as they need & desire.

        Try getting better nutrition, it’ll help with your energy problem.

        • Awesomo85@sh.itjust.works
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          3 hours ago

          As I mentioned below. I know more about this issue first hand and gone through more than you probably ever will in your life.

          Low energy. Son, you would have crumbled if you had to grow up the way I did.

          • RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
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            2 hours ago

            Fuckin’ glad I’m not your son, my dad was a real man who actually put the work in to help me become a caring and effective man, not watch me founder and mentally shrivel.

            I mean look at your comment. No shame, in spite of the supposed first hand experience. I feel for you, and for this country we both call home. Your crops, or your neighbors crops, may very well rot in the field while ripe, until the factory farm decides nearby decided to pay pennies on the dollar and take your land from you.

            All legal, all what we progressives didn’t want. You’ll understand after 4 years of further hardship in your community. Competition and a free market are good, if they are fair.

            • Awesomo85@sh.itjust.works
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              2 hours ago

              Typical. Don’t care about the actual struggles of us “brown people”. “Just shut up and be my prop! I’ve got a political statement to make!”

              Sorry your slaves are being taken from you.

              • RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
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                2 hours ago

                Missing the point, dumb.

                We need food, the jobs were available and I want people doing the work to have rights too. I don’t want to pick strawberries. I will gladly pay someone to get some for me, if the price is right.

                Are you a “brown person”? I guess I am as well.