Seriously, the whole definitions of ‘socialism’ and ‘communism’ is a context-dependent hell with over a century of baggage. It’s hard not to find definition errors in online arguments. In the time of Marx’s original writings the two terms were often treated interchangeably as synonyms, while others consider them mutually exclusive stages of development, while other people stretch the word socialism into anything from Bernie Sanders (a supporter of social capitalism and private property, who Marxists wouldn’t even consider to be socialist) and I’ve even seen some odd fellow claiming anything funded by taxes is socialism… a politically useless definition but unfortunately one many people recognise.
Then you get the whole confusion of “-ist” and “-ism”. In one context, “communism” can mean a society with a communist mode of production (“money is abolished under communism”, “we’re trying to achieve communism”), while other times “communism” can mean "the political movement aiming to achieve a society with a communist mode of production", and then the word “communist” can describe a person or group subscribing to that movement. Similar with “socialism”/“socialist”. So, common vague questions like “is china socialist?” can be, sincerely, read different ways by different people - they obviously haven’t achieved a [fully] socialist mode of production so many will say no (they still ultimately have capitalist economic structures, whether state dominated or not), but they’re also evidently a communist state and therefore also a socialist state since it’s run by a Communist Party that believes in and attempts a transition towards a socialist mode of production, so many will say yes (in the same way that I call myself a socialist, they call the state of China socialist - neither exists in a socialist mode of production but both subscribe to a socialist school of thought).
When you begin to see the different schools of thought (especially anarcho-communist vs. Marxist-Leninist schools), and know how some might have different interpretations of similar concepts, it can help clear up some of the confusion and apparent contradictions.
(Don’t be worried if any of this was confusing, I intentionally picked some of the most confusing cases for dramatic effect! It gets much easier with a little experience.)
If you do want to start with the basics, I made an introductory Marxist reading list, it’s linked on my profile. You can check it out if you want, but the very first section is very short and gives you the barest gist of what you need to know.
Seriously, the whole definitions of ‘socialism’ and ‘communism’ is a context-dependent hell with over a century of baggage. It’s hard not to find definition errors in online arguments. In the time of Marx’s original writings the two terms were often treated interchangeably as synonyms, while others consider them mutually exclusive stages of development, while other people stretch the word socialism into anything from Bernie Sanders (a supporter of social capitalism and private property, who Marxists wouldn’t even consider to be socialist) and I’ve even seen some odd fellow claiming anything funded by taxes is socialism… a politically useless definition but unfortunately one many people recognise.
Then you get the whole confusion of “-ist” and “-ism”. In one context, “communism” can mean a society with a communist mode of production (“money is abolished under communism”, “we’re trying to achieve communism”), while other times “communism” can mean "the political movement aiming to achieve a society with a communist mode of production", and then the word “communist” can describe a person or group subscribing to that movement. Similar with “socialism”/“socialist”. So, common vague questions like “is china socialist?” can be, sincerely, read different ways by different people - they obviously haven’t achieved a [fully] socialist mode of production so many will say no (they still ultimately have capitalist economic structures, whether state dominated or not), but they’re also evidently a communist state and therefore also a socialist state since it’s run by a Communist Party that believes in and attempts a transition towards a socialist mode of production, so many will say yes (in the same way that I call myself a socialist, they call the state of China socialist - neither exists in a socialist mode of production but both subscribe to a socialist school of thought).
When you begin to see the different schools of thought (especially anarcho-communist vs. Marxist-Leninist schools), and know how some might have different interpretations of similar concepts, it can help clear up some of the confusion and apparent contradictions.
(Don’t be worried if any of this was confusing, I intentionally picked some of the most confusing cases for dramatic effect! It gets much easier with a little experience.)
Yeah it’s kinda confusing all the terminology with this stuff. I kinda get it, but it hasn’t clicked iykwim.
If you do want to start with the basics, I made an introductory Marxist reading list, it’s linked on my profile. You can check it out if you want, but the very first section is very short and gives you the barest gist of what you need to know.
That’s a cool reading list. I’ll check it out
Thanks! Open to feedback, as well!