I knew this post would attract lazy criticisms reaffirming well-worn prejudices.
Biden spent $700 billion on climate change, after raising corporate taxes significantly to fund his climate policies. The article talks about that, as well as the facts of some of his failures. But regardless of that, what have you done that’s better?
Laying the expectation of single individuals affecting climate change is absurd. Climate change needs to be addressed nationally to make any kind of impact. Biden didn’t spend his personal money, he was the head of government signing government legislation to allocate government funds. You’ve basically asked “if you cared about climate so much, why aren’t you doing more than 1000s of people?”
My point wasn’t that one single Lemmy poster needs to do more than the entire federal government. My point was that Biden, as a single individual, is responsible for the largest amount of action on climate change that the US has ever undertaken, by about a factor of 10.
Way more is needed, but it’s a good start. My point was that looking at that situation and lobbing some kind of lazy ho-hum criticism at the person responsible for the government suddenly just now taking the problem seriously and taking big steps to address it, being disappointed in their job performance that it took more than 4 years to make a dent in a problem whose scale and entrenched-ness is literally unimaginable on a human scale, is a bunch of crap. And so, I asked the person who’s disappointed that Biden needed more time: Well, what have you done to address the problem, over the last four years?
Donated? Protested? Volunteered? Sent letters to congress? Something?
If only I’d written more than those two lines, and my main point was something different.
I do absolutely think that it’s up to the individual to positively impact the climate. Specifically, it’s up to the individual to push their government to enact real policies for stopping the catastrophe. Because that is the only realistic solution I see, and the governments are for damn sure not going to figure it out on their own.
Bud, I told you to stop or defend your argument, not repeat yourself. Understand? We are going to talk about that logical fallacy of yours, because it’s a problem you need to address and I’m here to help you thru it. That’s the only reason imma engage with you, feel me? I can just block ya if it’s too much, it ain’t that deep
Let’s try an experiment: Can you summarize for me what my argument is, specifically why and how I am saying individual action is important, and what additional elements I added to it after you asked? You don’t have to agree with it, I’m just curious if you can summarize what I’ve said so far, without adding enough spin to it to turn it back into your argument.
Like I said, the main thrust of what I was saying was something different, but I’m happy to defend that little part of it if you want to have that conversation.
“Biden worked hard to fix the climate. Maybe not hard enough for many people, but hard. He was stymied by many things, one of which was time. People are too critical of him when they should read more about the impact of the things he did do, and they should take a hard look at what they’ve done to help fix an existential problem that could kill us all.”
The opinion you have, “that Biden has done enough to be defended” is fine. I disagree with it but that’s the Internet, w/e.
Problem: you are using the fact “this is an existential problem, we must all fix this problem or die” as a defense of Biden. You can’t do this, because the two things are not the same topic. Doing what you have done is called a logical fallacy, specifically “whataboutism”.
Now, while adding nothing but more hot air, you wish to appear as if you know a lot while offering nothing of substance. Maybe you’re also hoping to move away from the fallacy, because admitting youre wrong, ever amounts to a deadly ego blow.
I’ve dealt with a million peeps just like this. If you’re following their lead I suppose your next move is to say “that’s not my argument at all, it’s actually [another bad argument]”. That would be very boring, so dont do that please.
Instead, commit to stop using bad logic to defend your points. Doing so can make good points into bad ones. Refresh your knowledge on logical fallacies and endeavor to avoid them
I think you missed their point. This is the DNC response to everything. “We did stuff, but nowhere near where it could have been and certainly didn’t solve the problem. Welp here’s to trying to do things in 2 years.”
I fully understood the lazy cliche being applied in this case. If I hadn’t understood it, I wouldn’t have taken time to address it directly and point out some flaws in its application here. Thanks for trying to talk down to me about it, and echoing the cliche again, instead of addressing anything I said.
Did you do anything? Protest, letters to congress, anything like that?
I’d put that in the same category as US climate policy. It’s been fucked for so long that it’s easy to get cynical about any given level of improvement. Instead, what the CWA is doing is the right answer: Acknowledge the success while still pushing hard for more. Imagine if that press release had said, instead, “typical liberal Biden, NLRB is still fucked as it always is, they always need more time I guess.”
I doubt you picked CWA by coincidence, but in case you did, I’m a member. I don’t consider that the same thing at all, because just as CWA says the administration didn’t do enough to keep the election process quick enough with current funding. On top of that, it’s not the government or CWA forming these unions, it’s the workers. We celebrate our victories in private, and then fight like hell for more in public. I do the same thing with climate change.
That’s the liberal slogan “we needed more time”
I knew this post would attract lazy criticisms reaffirming well-worn prejudices.
Biden spent $700 billion on climate change, after raising corporate taxes significantly to fund his climate policies. The article talks about that, as well as the facts of some of his failures. But regardless of that, what have you done that’s better?
Laying the expectation of single individuals affecting climate change is absurd. Climate change needs to be addressed nationally to make any kind of impact. Biden didn’t spend his personal money, he was the head of government signing government legislation to allocate government funds. You’ve basically asked “if you cared about climate so much, why aren’t you doing more than 1000s of people?”
My point wasn’t that one single Lemmy poster needs to do more than the entire federal government. My point was that Biden, as a single individual, is responsible for the largest amount of action on climate change that the US has ever undertaken, by about a factor of 10.
Way more is needed, but it’s a good start. My point was that looking at that situation and lobbing some kind of lazy ho-hum criticism at the person responsible for the government suddenly just now taking the problem seriously and taking big steps to address it, being disappointed in their job performance that it took more than 4 years to make a dent in a problem whose scale and entrenched-ness is literally unimaginable on a human scale, is a bunch of crap. And so, I asked the person who’s disappointed that Biden needed more time: Well, what have you done to address the problem, over the last four years?
Donated? Protested? Volunteered? Sent letters to congress? Something?
I’m fuggen begging you to stop using this bad faith and absolutely valueless and thoughtless argument, today.
Like, if you can’t or won’t, at least give us an attempt of a defense of why you think it is useful? Then we could be entertained at least
Cuz really. Really. that’s some triflin’ ass shit, some kiddie level logic youre employin OP.
If only I’d written more than those two lines, and my main point was something different.
I do absolutely think that it’s up to the individual to positively impact the climate. Specifically, it’s up to the individual to push their government to enact real policies for stopping the catastrophe. Because that is the only realistic solution I see, and the governments are for damn sure not going to figure it out on their own.
Bud, I told you to stop or defend your argument, not repeat yourself. Understand? We are going to talk about that logical fallacy of yours, because it’s a problem you need to address and I’m here to help you thru it. That’s the only reason imma engage with you, feel me? I can just block ya if it’s too much, it ain’t that deep
I don’t think they are capable of understanding ☹️
Let’s try an experiment: Can you summarize for me what my argument is, specifically why and how I am saying individual action is important, and what additional elements I added to it after you asked? You don’t have to agree with it, I’m just curious if you can summarize what I’ve said so far, without adding enough spin to it to turn it back into your argument.
Like I said, the main thrust of what I was saying was something different, but I’m happy to defend that little part of it if you want to have that conversation.
I’m so very glad you asked.
Your argument is, broadly:
“Biden worked hard to fix the climate. Maybe not hard enough for many people, but hard. He was stymied by many things, one of which was time. People are too critical of him when they should read more about the impact of the things he did do, and they should take a hard look at what they’ve done to help fix an existential problem that could kill us all.”
The opinion you have, “that Biden has done enough to be defended” is fine. I disagree with it but that’s the Internet, w/e.
Problem: you are using the fact “this is an existential problem, we must all fix this problem or die” as a defense of Biden. You can’t do this, because the two things are not the same topic. Doing what you have done is called a logical fallacy, specifically “whataboutism”.
Now, while adding nothing but more hot air, you wish to appear as if you know a lot while offering nothing of substance. Maybe you’re also hoping to move away from the fallacy, because admitting youre wrong, ever amounts to a deadly ego blow.
I’ve dealt with a million peeps just like this. If you’re following their lead I suppose your next move is to say “that’s not my argument at all, it’s actually [another bad argument]”. That would be very boring, so dont do that please.
Instead, commit to stop using bad logic to defend your points. Doing so can make good points into bad ones. Refresh your knowledge on logical fallacies and endeavor to avoid them
I think you missed their point. This is the DNC response to everything. “We did stuff, but nowhere near where it could have been and certainly didn’t solve the problem. Welp here’s to trying to do things in 2 years.”
I fully understood the lazy cliche being applied in this case. If I hadn’t understood it, I wouldn’t have taken time to address it directly and point out some flaws in its application here. Thanks for trying to talk down to me about it, and echoing the cliche again, instead of addressing anything I said.
Did you do anything? Protest, letters to congress, anything like that?
I was busy organizing the largest union in my industry.
Sounds good. Here’s some of what the CWA had to say about the NLRB under Biden:
https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/cwa-statement-nlrb-funding-amid-increase-worker-organizing
I’d put that in the same category as US climate policy. It’s been fucked for so long that it’s easy to get cynical about any given level of improvement. Instead, what the CWA is doing is the right answer: Acknowledge the success while still pushing hard for more. Imagine if that press release had said, instead, “typical liberal Biden, NLRB is still fucked as it always is, they always need more time I guess.”
I doubt you picked CWA by coincidence, but in case you did, I’m a member. I don’t consider that the same thing at all, because just as CWA says the administration didn’t do enough to keep the election process quick enough with current funding. On top of that, it’s not the government or CWA forming these unions, it’s the workers. We celebrate our victories in private, and then fight like hell for more in public. I do the same thing with climate change.