A decision to negotiate over the heads of the Ukrainians would reveal just how Trump sees Ukraine and Europe.
    • Opinionhaver@feddit.ukEnglish
      1353·
      4 days ago

      What’s the alternative here? Russians going home and giving back all the conquered territories is simply not going to happen.

      • sleep_deprived@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        448·
        4 days ago

        The alternative is making Russia getting/keeping the territory a worse option than leaving Ukraine the hell alone. I agree that the unfortunate reality is that Putin will never - can never - give up the war willingly without concessions, but the flip side to that is they’ll be back for more sooner or later. We have to make the war such a bad option for Russia that Putin is deposed, whether by his oligarchs or by the Russian people. It’s a difficult fight, but it’s one we’ve fought before on 3 fronts in WWII. The difference, this time, being nukes exist and that understandably makes a lot of people nervous - but again, expansionists never stop. The confrontation has to come at some point unless we want all-out war in Europe.

        I’m far removed from the situation, so my opinion isn’t worth much on this part, but I think realistically maybe there could be some concessions around Crimea for a peace deal - sort of a status quo ante or similar - but Russia would have to make some concessions in turn for Ukraine to agree (NATO peacekeeping forces in Ukraine? Still a no-go for Putin though…). Ceding Ukranian territorial losses from the current war, though, will only put off the eventual confrontation, and hurt the West in the meantime.

        • pinball_wizard
          63·
          3 days ago

          We have to make the war such a bad option for Russia that Putin is deposed,

          You’re right and it might be humanity’s only chance at survival. In the post nuclear era, we must either eradicate all warmongering, or it will likely kill every single one of us.

          If Putin wins, no one else can. He chose to start a new war for personal reasons in the post nuclear age. Humanity likely cannot afford to tolerate people who do that, in a post nuclear age.

        • ghost_of_faso3@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
          922·
          4 days ago

          I’m far removed from the situation, so my opinion isn’t worth much on this part, but I think realistically maybe there could be some concessions around Crimea for a peace deal

          If your opinion isnt worth shit dont share it, the notion that Russia will give up any territory, never mind territory it held before the invasion is counter to the reality where the entire ukraine front is currently collapsing and Zelensky isnt even being considered in peace talks because he has no position of strength due to insane losses.

          Ceding Ukranian territorial losses from the current war, though, will only put off the eventual confrontation, and hurt the West in the meantime.

          ‘Millions more must die for my nationalism’

          • shani66@ani.social
            126·
            4 days ago

            You realize your opinion isn’t worth shit either, yeah? Maybe it’s worth even less, considering where you are posting from.

            • ghost_of_faso3@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
              615·
              4 days ago

              Only opinion that matters now is the one being signed between Russia and America; Ukraine has already lost, you’re just too stupid to notice that.

              • HonytawkEnglish
                12·
                2 days ago

                America doesn’t have a say in the war, no matter how much Trump would like that.

                If Ukraine doesn’t get a say in a peace talk, then they will just keep killing Russians until they do.

                And Europe will keep supplying them until that happens.

        • lorty@lemmy.ml
          1335·
          4 days ago

          There’s nothing that can be done, Russia is winning on the battlefield. At this point negotiating suits Ukraine, not the other way around.

          • Glitterbomb@lemmy.world
            3212·
            4 days ago

            Buying thousands of North Koreans with zero combat experience to attempt to take back land you lost in an invasion that you started… is that what winning looks like?

            • ghost_of_faso3@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
              1211·
              4 days ago

              Winning is when two global super powers carve up your country and when you arent even invited to the discussion.

                • ghost_of_faso3@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
                  610·
                  4 days ago

                  Thats why the US is talking directly with them and not Ukraine, of course; denying the material reality of the conflict is just prolonging it and needlessly killing more proles on the Ukraine side while we sabre rattle around and act like Ukraine ever had a chance in this conflict.

                  • shani66@ani.social
                    104·
                    3 days ago

                    The US is talking to Russia because the president is a verifiable Russian asset.

          • CethinEnglish
            22·
            3 days ago

            They’re holding more dirt, but taking more losses while they’re economy is not doing so great. If that’s what winning looks like then I wouldn’t want to be a winner.