I guess not strictly news - but with all of the vitriol I have seen in discussions on the Israel situation, that have boiled down to arguments over wording, I feel that this take from the BBC is worthy of some discussion.

Mods, feel free to remove if this is not newsy enough.

    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      There’s a reason every country that bitches about the BBC also gets accused of being far right authoritarians…

      BBC calls them out, but pulls just short of saying it. And there’s nothing far right authoritarians hate more than someone calmly telling the world exactly what they want. If we flat out called them nazis, they’d argue they’re not technically nazis they’re sparkling fascists.

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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        1 year ago

        The only people the BBC have ever called Nazis are the actual Nazis, because they called themselves Nazis. So fair enough.

      • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 year ago

        I’m really sorry, but in case of Armenia, Artsakh and Azerbaijan BBC has been extremely pro-Azeri for many years, all the way to using Azeri place names which literally were invented 30 years ago when they were attempting (then unsuccessfully, now successfully) to depopulate those places.

        Now they seem to have made a 180 degree turn (still using Azeri place names, though), but that can be explained by there no longer being Armenians in Artsakh, so lying is no longer that necessary.

        Now, about nazis and Azerbaijan … you comment seems asinine in that context.

    • Evia@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Bullshit. They’ve used the word ‘terrorist’ for every other attack in the past two decades (9/11, London Bridge, Manchester Arena, 7/7, etc.). Was that not ‘choosing sides’ then?

      They just can’t admit that the UK fucked up and condemn Israel because the lawyers told them not to

      • Nighed@sffa.communityOP
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        1 year ago

        The well known phrase is “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”. I Imagine from their point of view, Israel is the ‘terrorist’ group, routinely bombing apartment buildings etc and that their actions are a proportionate counter (recent events nonwithstanding!)

        Both sides of the current conflict have/are committing atrocities, but the reporting of those atrocities should be as factual and unbiased as possible.

        • wewbull@feddit.uk
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          1 year ago

          The best way I’ve heard it described is that they both view the other group of people as existential evil. Far beyond enemies, something which is evil just for existing. Not just the militaries, but the nation, race, state, religion, whatever classification. With that viewpoint, any action you take can be justified. Just as nobody would think twice about killing a million mosquito larvae in a country that has thousands die from malaria, killing a few thousand of the other side is morally neutral at worst.

          This is going to continue to be horrific for a while.

        • CookieJarObserver@ani.social
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          1 year ago

          The freedom fighters that behead babies, rape woman and abduct people… Oh and also rocketstrike civilians in general…

          If you believe in their “freedom” feel free to go there.

          • audiomodder@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 year ago

            So do you call the Israeli army terrorists? Because they’ve done all of those things to an even greater extent than Hamas has.

          • Pratai@lemmy.ca
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            1 year ago

            You know, they BOTH do that shit, right? It’s important that you know this.

            • SCB@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              The military prosecuted and convicted the leader who ordered the killings, so implying the US military condones these actions is really stupid

              Regardless of the wrist-slap the criminal President gave him, he was convicted. There is no legal recourse after a Presidential commutation.

              • thoro@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                My Lai was not an isolated incident.

                Only one involved was convicted as stated, but then completely let off so who cares? The higher ups that enabled it were completely let off. Others who were involved in the cover up completely let off. The whistleblowers, etc were shunned and ostracized by the military for decades.

                • SCB@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  so who cares

                  Being that is invalidates the point you were making, you should care.

                  But then, your only interest in contrarianism, so no one really gives a fuck about your opinion either, you sick fucking terrorist apologist.

              • angrymouse@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                But complaining about whataboutism while you ignore the problem everytime somoeone powerfull or ally does sucks the same. A war of suckers.

                • Pratai@lemmy.ca
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                  1 year ago

                  But redirecting attention away from the topic being discussed just so you can whine about someone else doing the same makes it appear as if you’re justifying it so long as someone else does it.

                  Stop doing this. It’s juvenile and muddies the water. You want to discuss how shitty America is, do it in its own post where that can be discussed in full. Here, it doesn’t belong.

                  • angrymouse@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    I’m not trying to do that, I’m trying to understand how to international interests interact with the war, if you really want to understand international conflicts you should do this all the time.

                    Saying “Hammas bad” is much more juvenile, and is equivalent of saying “fart” for the discussion

              • gregorum@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                And while you have every right to your opinion, your opinion isn’t a newsworthy or relevant fact.

      • YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Journalists should never label a group of people with an adjective. It’s Journalism 101. Your writing should be free of personal bias and report the facts and quoted statements. No assumptions are allowed.

              • gregorum@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Lmao, you’re seriously linking to a deleted comment to try to make your case?

                Laws are, by definition, a legal opinion— which can be overturned, by the way, by another legal opinion. The only fact here is that it is, is some jurisdiction, a law.

          • angrymouse@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            That just is not the point. I mean, if you are involved in the conflict you can totally believe in anything, but the point is in the moment you call them terrorist and call it a day you lost any possibility to analyze the situation and understand WTF is happening and why.

            BBC is not saying they are NOT terrorists, but it does not matter in this context.

      • ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        The U.S., U.K., E.U., and others designate them as a terrorist group but the U.N. does not. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups

        The reality is that they’re the militant faction of the de facto government of a quasi-state under Israeli occupation. It is complicated so the BBC just says who thinks they’re a terrorist group. That seems reasonable for journalists striving to be neutral.

        • kautau@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          “Everybody wants to occupy ‘the holy land’ and everyone who is taking part of that sucks”

          While Israel has been basically a terrorist state, attacking Palestinians nonchalant, bombing civilian districts, and Hamas has grown in number, also basically being a terrorist state (the iron dome exists for a reason), it feels like we are forgetting that this whole argument comes down to religious rights. The argument will never end. The conflict will never end. Both groups are thumping their book claiming it’s their land. The war will go on for centuries until there’s nothing left to claim. That’s how religious war works, unless some other great motivator stops it.

          • hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest
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            1 year ago

            The war will go on for centuries until there’s nothing left to claim

            The US is older than Israel. My grandfather is older than Israel and he’s still alive. There was no state of Israel in 1920 and the Jewish population in the region was ~11%. This hasn’t been going on for centuries. It’s been going on for century.

            • kautau@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              The history of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel has its origins in the 2nd millennium BCE, when Israelites emerged as an outgrowth of southern Canaanites, During biblical times, a postulated United Kingdom of Israel existed before splitting into two Israelite kingdoms occupying the highland zone

              The Crusades, the Ottoman Empire, thankfully those only lasted a century and that’s when we determined who got what.

              Yes I’m sure that since they didn’t have it before, they wouldn’t try to have it again. My point is not about nations that rise and fall. It’s that they will continue to rise and fall for this holy war on what they consider to be “their land”

              Are you really sure that without US intervention, and the nation of Israel starting, there wouldn’t be orthodox Jewish terrorists on the other side of the border claiming it was “their land?”

              Those claiming it’s “their land” will continue to fight, until everyone is dead. That’s my point.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        It’s pretty ballsy to start using an alt with the same name as the last account you got banned under…

        How long you think this one will last?