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- cross-posted to:
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Cream get the money Dolla Dolla bill yall
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If your community knowingly depends on slavery then your community probably deserves to collapse
Not community. Economy.
Slavery, Prison labour, migrant labour that you can totally rip off and not pay, and lastly child labour. That’s what’s propping up the economy at this point…
Do you think the workers of the community can compete on wages with literal slaves? Slavery destroys working people, even those who are “free”.
Using underpaid prison labor to deny people access to well-paying jobs, forcing more people into difficult situations.
Which again raises crime, which in turn raises the amount of underpaid prison labor.
See, the system works. Well, not for us.
This is not a meme…
Once you know how and why was the private prisons created or operate and “earn” their money you would be sad if not depressed…
I recommend watching a documentary on this topic.
 
I’m not disagreeing with you, but you should really at least name a documentary and share some insight that it brings.
what emoji did you use at the end there it’s blank to me
I don’t see one at the end of their comment, but they have a cherry blossom at the end of their display name if that’s what you meant?(not what you meant!)
there’s 3 emojis showing up as   (Object replacement characters) at the end of the reply text
Ahh I see. Or don’t, actually lol. It’s just blank for me, not showing the [obj] symbol
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Your mom’s not a meme
Your meme’s not a mom
Both of our statements are factually accurate.
Some moms are memes.
All memes are pop culture.
True or false: all moms are pop culture
False. The set of moms that are pop culture is a strict subset of the set of moms.
Good, you’re not glitching yet and Project Castor can continue.
So they are literally forced labour camps? How can anyone in the US still complain about Russia? (Just as a disclaimer, this is not a defence of Russia. I think the conditions there are terrible, but the US doesn’t seem far behind, if at all)
The US has way better propaganda - the marketing strategies invented in the 60s by the nephew of Freud were put to very good use at bypassing people’s reasoning and not just at making them feel needs, fears, and short-term endorphine jolts related to products and services being sold.
Also the US has way better circus and more bread than Russia.
Cuz different rule sets apply to different parts of the world. That and the clever naming scheme the US usually applies to make things sound not as bad or marginably better than they actually are.
And it seems to have worked on you too since you agreed above that it actually has nothing to do with capitalism.
I never said it has anything to do with capitalism.
Did you reply to the wrong person? The person you replied to didn’t mention capitalism.
Did you actually read the thread? Because they supported a reply that did earlier.
Of course i read the thread - you have to be aware of how absurd that question is from the outset. And no, they didn’t support anyone claiming this is not the fault of capitalism.
The naming schemes he’s talking about are taken from marketing.
IIRC, unless you’re lucky enough to have someone outside of jail putting money into your commissary, you kind of have to if you want half decent living conditions.
Want more shampoo or feminine hygiene products? You have to buy them. Want more food than you were alotted? You have to buy it. It even includes things like toothpaste.
It’s so horrifically abusable too. You can easily lose the “privilege” of slave labor just because someone felt like it or didn’t like your face.
Russia’s actively committing genocide and threatens nuclear war against anyone who directly intervenes, so there’s that.
I agree with you though. The U.S. is just a third world country with a nice coat of paint at this point.
And in Russia, they toss people in prison for disagreeing with the state, so there’s that.
They’re gonna start doing that here soon, when either one camp or another takes control of state or federal governments.
Fucking Florida bans books now. 🤦
It’s definitely going to be the far right who will throw people into camps if we get there. The most far left politicians in the US rarely if ever advocate targeting individual right wingers, but I can name a few far right politicians with substantial followings that suggested punishing people who disagree with them. I don’t have a lot of love for democratic politicians in the US but they don’t seem like a possible near term threat to people’s safety, they just won’t stand in the way of the people who are.
“Most far left politicians”? We don’t have any real far left politicians. All we have are lefty wannbes who just care about furthering their careers within the Democratic party. We need a third party and we need it now. A party that holds true leftist values and not what the democrats claim to support. We have had enough lip service by the so called leftists in the Democratic party.
I think we’ve seen how far the Democrats will go down the authoritarianism path during the lockdowns, which was horrific and corrupt, but you’re right, it’s not nearly as bad as what the stupid fucking Republicans will do if they get their way next year.
How far did they even go? Forcing people to stay home and wear masks during a pandemic is not the same as saying you want to exile leftists(which FYI trump did say). They are not equivalent and being unaware of that is dangerous.
They forced people to accept vaccines they didn’t want under pain of losing their jobs.
Which is inherently destructive and abusive to the working class.
Actually shit like that is what empowered dipshits like DeSantis and Abbott, and why Florida and Texas are so especially hard-nosed against the Democrats and left-wing culture in general.
The left doesn’t want to admit that what they did was wrong, which will keep them from being able to win over enough moderates to stop the right, so I suspect the right will ultimately win and impose their horrific flavor of authoritarianism on the rest of us.
The LGBTQ+ community, women and minorities will suffer the most. Especially the kids. They’re the ones I feel the worst for.
Also, let me be clear that I am not drawing any kind of equivalency; actually my point is that Democrats at their worst (which we saw the past few years) is not as bad as the Republicans at their worst is going to be, and it’s partly Democrats’ fault for empowering the hard right by giving them something legitimate to oppose.
Assange?
Criticize the US all you want, but he didn’t get targeted for disagreeing with the state.
He published evidence of US war crimes and is being persecuted for it. How is that not disagreeing with the state?
Where he crossed the line was in helping Chelsea Manning to bypass security mechanisms to get access to documents she would not have otherwise had access to. Otherwise, you would have had a situation much like The New York Times and the Pentagon Papers where the US government was constrained by the First Amendment.
Russia is a terrible place as is, but the US is too.
Regarding the 3rd world country: That is totally true.
Y’all are making some weird arguments based on not much.
Let’s have a look at TB as a marker for prison population health. It will exist for a long time without killing someone and will spread quickly in poor conditions.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(21)00049-9/fulltext
Now I accept the argument on relative abundance of TB and would welcome an alternative marker.
Prison colonies in Russia are indeed worse than in USA. People die from sickness and malnutrition there who’d come there healthy. And, of course, because of beatings with broken bones etc which somehow nobody knows about until the prisoner dies.
Things like rape and unofficial hierarchy seem to exist in US prisons too, but in general seems just uncomparable.
But people die due to e.g. bad ventilation, missing cooling and failing disease control in the US too.
Just have a look at how great the US prison systems have handled Covid.
The mortality in US prisons is ~40% than in the general population, and that is not counting 2020, where it was ~60% higher.
The difference is, it’s often a news story when it happens in the US.
In Russia, it’s a Tuesday.
I’m not arguing it’s bad, but really still not Russian levels.
Source? Is it Hollywood movies?
Source is living in Russia for 27 years and talking to people, also reading stuff from various leaks etc. And obviously mass media. If you are asking about Russia.
If you are asking about USA, then my only sources are mass media and Reddit.
Fair enough, I believe you.
Pretty much exact argument much of the south made about ending slavery before the american civil war happened…
Also frequently hear the same argument made for any change to the thoroughly corrupt healthcare scheme in the U.S.
That any form of socialized medicine would collapse the insurance industries putting thousands out of work and damaging stock portfolios and retirement accounts that may have invested in such. But hey, it’s totally ok to bankrupt tons of citizens and enslave ill folks to lousy jobs because they can’t afford to lose employment-tied insurance that would never be affordable as an individual.
Anything good for is but not thier bottom line: OH HEAVENS NO, THE EXPENSE!
Anything they can profit from: this is essential.
It’s not true then, it’s not true now.
Slaves were already barely profitable compared to paid labor before the civil war, and
slave labourprison labour is only profitable because it’s massively subsidized by the US government.They’ve always liked slave labor because they see work as a punishing thing to force people to do, and hard, painful and dangerous work is what you force on people you don’t like(/judge to be immoral).
Increase the demand for productivity until the workers are sufficiently suffering (according to your personal idea of how much a worker should suffer). Now you’re their shepherd, putting them to work. You’ve taken personal responsibility to ensure they don’t have idle hands to do the devil’s work or whatever. The point is that you are good for forcing them to do this.
This, I think, is the foundation of the Christian work “ethic”. Which essentially is to voluntarily punish yourself woth your work like this, to save your boss the trouble. Leaders love this religion for some very good reasons.
The profit motive isn’t irrelevant to the equation at all, of course, but good profits aren’t necessary for them to desire the continuation of punitive labor.
Same is actually true for most fossil fuel production now - only has profits because of subsidizing.
The folks profiting spend part of that profit to pay for politicians to continue the cycle.
Translation: “But… muh slaves!”
That sounds an awful fucking lot like some of the rationale the confederates used around the time of the civil war.
Yeah, I thought that reasoning sounded familiar!
The very idea that we have legal, Constitutional slavery still in the US and most people don’t know or care is genuinely disturbing.
Oh boy wait until you hear about what the chocolate/coffee and mining industries are doing!
Also the idea that there are haves and have-nots in prison royally pisses me off. Like, they’re already prisoners. Aren’t we supposed to be helping them become productive in society? Yet they’re not even treated equally in a god damn prison it’s actually disgusting how blatantly predatory our legal system is. Many people aren’t even “lucky” enough to work for countless bs reasons. It’s so gross.
It definitely is. Prisoners are at the mercy of the state more than anyone else, so their treatment at the hands of the state should be the biggest offense when it comes to civil rights. But here we are, where people actively root for prisoner mistreatment just to “teach them a lesson”. When at the very least results should show them that this mistreatment does not actually bring any type of rehabilitation or deterrent to crime.
So it’s just “we can’t abolish slavery because it will hurt all the poor slave-owners” but modernized.
I would argue that it’s not even modernized. It’s just the same argument.
Right-wing ideology consists out of a very limited selection of lies used to justify the power and privilege of a small elite - they vary the wording on it to suit a new target audience, but it’s always the same lies. There is nothing Ben Shapiro can say that I didn’t hear Apartheid-ideologues say back in the 80s - it’s just the surface details that vary. It’s pretty much the only thing there is to right-wing politics, really.
It’s the same argument. These people are enslaved. The 13th amendment abolished slavery “except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted”.
Translation: Slavery has always been legal in the US.
To be fair this is hardly a problem unique to western capitalism. Gulag labor in the USSR was widely acknowledged and documented. And there are likewise credible accusations of forced labor (and much worse) in China as well. It’s bad in every case, and intellectually honest observers would condemn this practice in every instance.
This isn’t capitalism or communism - it’s an autocracy and human rights issue. The places with the best criminal justice outcomes these days are generally the “third way socialism” eg Scandinavian model countries which have a blended version of regulated capitalism and wealth redistribution.
To be fair this is hardly a problem unique to western capitalism.
The majority of western capitalist countries DON’T have legal slave labour in their prison system (or anywhere). I’m pretty sure it’s actually only the USA
It’s the state using the labor of people for its own profit and the profit of its cronies. Capitalism has nothing to do with it.
in the USSR was widely acknowledged
What do you mean was? It still is.
USSR no longer exists is why he said was, but Russia probably still does it yeah
USSR still exists. I don’t care they call themselves something different now.
Huh. So US would collapse without slave labour?
Well, actually, yes. Or without migrant labour which they are losing hence the child labour law issues recently. Study harder. You will get it.
Yeah your last comments seem like you have a chip on your shoulder.
Why so combative?
Your info is right, but the last two sentences are uncalled for.
Private prisons? Seriously, Amurica?
Sounds like slavery with extra steps, cuz it is.
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That was condescending. They likely phrased it that way because they thought the other poster didn’t know. Not that they just found out. You were rude.
Why so condescending? There’s no need to be so rude. You can make a point without being an asshole. Sorry you just found out.
We have them in Australia too
another police state. They’ll come to europe soon eough.
Sounds like slavery with extra steps.
Sounds like pure slavery:
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catch someone
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take away their freedom
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force them to work
Oh, there’s a trial and some other stuff. There are extra steps. Still slavery, though.
Oh, there’s a trial and some other stuff.
Only if you’re one of the lucky outliers.
In fiscal year 2022, only 290 of 71,954 defendants in federal criminal cases – about 0.4% – went to trial and were acquitted, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of the latest available statistics from the federal judiciary. Another 1,379 went to trial and were found guilty (1.9%).
The overwhelming majority of defendants in federal criminal cases that year did not go to trial at all. About nine-in-ten (89.5%) pleaded guilty, while another 8.2% had their case dismissed at some point in the judicial process, according to the data from the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts.
To get a slave, you had to go to the slave market. Same deal
That is why Marx called that wage slavery. It’s literally slavery with wages.
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Oh no, is your community relying on slave labor because capitalism deems it not efficient enough to exist? Boo hoo so sad, better vote pro-slaver again next election, they will surely fix the problem this term.
But no, we can’t plan out and try out a new or better system, because we might hurt poor old capitalism’s feelings. Won’t somebody think of the billionaires?
