By MAYA ZANGER-NADIS NOVEMBER 12, 2023 19:09 Updated: NOVEMBER 12, 2023 21:26
Israeli security forces delivered 300 liters of diesel fuel to Shifa Hospital in Gaza early Sunday morning and later received intelligence indicating that Hamas had intercepted the delivery, according to a Sunday night IDF statement.
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The “evidence” of edit: stealing fuel provided by IDF is some phone conversation where someone says Hamas will take the hospital’s fuel reserves.
Then the evidence of blocking fuel is again a representative speaking on what Abu Rish says…
Such claims about Hamas are certainly plausible, but I call into question their authenticity, because it’s possible these calls are fabrications by the IDF if they aren’t independently verified. The information war occuring alongside the actual war makes it difficult for me to read through Hamas and IDF bullshit.
Edit: clarified my point a little. Yes they can say they delivered fuel to the hospital with a video that’s fine. It’s the “they’re stealing it” part I’m not entirely convinced.
The evidence is they fucking filmed themselves dropping the fuel off.
No geotag, just some nvd footage. Could also be easily fabricated or repurposed footage.
When the hospital did run out of fuel earlier, they did confirm thay Israel hadn’t responded to any requests then, so it’s possible something did change since that time, but it’s also equally likely nothing new actually developed.
To be honest, I’d probably wait for proper verification of the footage by someone like the BBC. And if I were running an information war campaign, I would absolutely fill those cans with water and film myself delivering them. The footage isn’t great evidence.
Not to mention it was just 300 liters, the hospital uses from 8 to 12 thousand liters a day.
I mean, if you knew it would probably be stolen would you send it lots or enough to see what happens?
If accurate, a small delivery was the right choice
Someone already replied to that person showing them the math
https://lemmy.world/comment/5268159 and https://lemmy.world/comment/5268509
Grain of salt on whether Israel actually did it or not. But if they did, that is actually a good amount. It keeps the essentials of the hospital going for 1-5 days (depends how it is broken down, how many ICU beds are full, etc). But it isn’t enough fuel to make them a target for Hamas.
Also: Storing fuel is hard. You COULD leave the fuel tanker in the parking lot but considering that is likely to catch a stray bullet/artillery shell…
And, from the shitty perspective: it keeps said hospitals on a tight leash. Because they can last maybe one day before they have to acquiesce to whatever the IDF wants in exchange for the humanitarian aid.
There’s no footage to verify here, the evidence is just an audio recording. The only way to get verification is to find out who is the health officiaal on that line and contact them.
The linked story has footage, no?
It’s just soldier carrying fuel. The issue here isn’t that IDF lie about fuel delivery, the issue is israel say Hamas blocking the delivery while Hamas deny it, and only sound clip are provided which is super easy to fake. So calling the health official on the end of the line will provide insight about the issue.
Or step back, turn the cameras off, and then get the fuel again.
All the video shows is that it was there at a time and place. It doesn’t show what happened after the fact,
If there is one thing this conflict has taught us, it is the power of state funded media.
Al Jazeera have been putting in work. They are historically one of the best “view points” for the never ending hell in the middle east, but it is also worth remembering that they are funded by Qatar and were pretty much the first to accuse the IDF of the hospital bombing a few weeks back (that they most likely didn’t do… as opposed to the ones last week that they probably did…).
The BBC demonstrated during King Chuck’s coronation that they are 100% willing to toe the party line. So take it with a grain of salt
What we should be keeping an eye out for are the trustworthy OSINT outlets
The BBC is imperfect - but BBC Verify does excellent work analysing and verifying disputed footage https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/reality_check - I’m impressed with their work.
I’m not sure what you think the “party line” is in this case - the BBC has been covering the current action in Gaza robustly with their foreign correspondents. How they covered the investiture of the head of state, doesn’t really tell you mucgh about their coverage of Israel-Palestine.
They are good until they aren’t. Up until a month or two ago, I would have gone to bat for Al Jazeera as the closest thing you can get to an “unbiased” source on the never ending invasions of the Middle East. But right from the start of this round of Israel vs Palestine, they have very strongly been showing their side as state funded media. I still think they are incredibly valuable, but now as an alternate source to try to make sense of this mess rather than as a “reliable” source, if that makes sense.
And the BBC has already demonstrated how quickly they will bend the knee to whatever the British government wants, “when it matters”.
Am I saying you should assume they are liars? No. But I would lean more toward the outlets that aren’t state affiliated for something so intrinsically tied to global politics and relations.
Can you give an example of an investigative story where they have ‘bended their knee?’ are you talking about the coverage of the coronation? Overall 62% of the UK population still support the idea of Monarchy https://www.statista.com/statistics/863893/support-for-the-monarchy-in-britain-by-age/
So they should appease the userbase rather than tell the truth? how the fuck is that an argument?
It’s not an argument. I was asking for an example where the BBC had ‘bended the knee’ to the UK government, and was suggesting that the coverage of the Coronation was a bad example.
It REALLY isn’t worth arguing with the Royalist crowd.
Like, I’ll dick around with a tankie or a CCP shill. But the Royalists are just rabid in a way that isn’t even fun. Probably a side effect of having one of the most detested Brits of the past few decades (and that is saying A LOT) as a King and having him now defend and protect the Royal Nonce at every step.
Dropping off enough fuel to run the hospital for half an hour? Who cares? It was a PR stunt that would have made no difference. 300 liters is a pittance, an insult, a photo op, a lie to make suckers who can’t conceptualize volume think they made an effort to help. 300 liters is less than 80 gallons. This would be enough diesel to run a generator for one RV at full capacity for about 3 days, not a hospital with a ton of lights and computers, a ventilation system and a bunch of kids on life support. They sent enough fuel for one family to go glamping for a weekend.
Don’t run all the lights and computers? Only the barebones essentials. There is math somewhere else in the thread, you should go read it. Some is better than nothing especially in terms of life support.
If you’re talking about the hospital bed math, then that comment can be completely ignored. It’s some random dude on the internet who googled how much electricity an ICU bed uses, and how much electricity some generator they found generates per hour per unit of fuel. That’s literally it.
Hospitals are complex systems that require a ton of power to run. Others who have experience in operations have said it would power minimum operations for about 30m.
If Israel wanted to demonstrate that the donated fuel was stolen, they could have had footage of people hopping out of a truck and loading up the fuel. If it just disappeared into the hospital and they think it was just added to the reserves they think are under the hospital, then their “proof” isn’t worth anything in this case.
They could have given nothing, 30 min of power is better than no power. . Seriously I don’t like how Israel treats the Palestinians but being angry they offered some fuel is pretty fucking stupid. Also don’t you find it strange Hamas isn’t using their smuggling routes for the people in any way? Iran and other support them but they can’t get fuel into hospitals? Shit, they brag about having tunnels everywhere use one to help people.
Look, if you have 50 starving families and you give them a Subway foot long roast beef sandwich, you shouldn’t be patting yourself on the back because it’s better than nothing and some dude on the internet asks Google and finds out that they get 8 calories each, which is enough for 30 seconds of metabolic activity, which is better than nothing.
And I am not addressing the morality of Hamas operational decisions or the veracity of their claims in any way. I suspect that the majority of their resources are occupied (no pun intended) with combat operations and are unavailable for civilian resupply efforts.
But the immorality of Hamas’ operations (if it is such) is not a justification for immorality on Israel’s part, except insofar as it has an operational impact on Israeli forces. Israel cannot say they are capable of supplying basic aid (or allowing the international community to do so) but the fact that Hamas is choosing not to themselves give up their food and fuel reserves justifies prevention of supply. I don’t know of any moral framework that would permit that.
You initiate an operation that you know will significantly disrupt civilian infrastructure including critical supplies. You know that the enemy organization you’re supposed to be concentrating your efforts against will be hoarding supplies to continue operations during lockdown. Therefore you know, before the first plane takes off, that you either need to take responsibility to maintain or create a supply line, or you’re doing what Israel is currently being accused of doing, which is starving out the civilian population indiscriminately. You can’t simply say “Someone else should do it” and have a morally defensible position, especially if your actions brought those conditions about.
Yes, donating one sandwich is still better than nothing . The fuck are you on? I don’t feel like responding to the rest.
A billionaire donating a single sandwich for millions is “better than nothing” but if that’s good enough for you in a massive humanitarian crisis you’re a self obsessed loser who cares more about making themselves feel good than actually doing something meaningfully useful.
I bet you flip quarters at homeless people and skip home thinking you did something today.
wow, someone did the math, all is settled. Hurrah! We did it, we solved the case on the internet.
Removed by mod
Its you who is straight up lyong brah
There’s literally pictures of the fuel tho?
My mistake, the part I’m calling into question is the “Hamas is stealing the fuel”, I didn’t word my comment properly.