Democratically owning the means of production among the workers. Instead of some greedy rich guy who’d want to give as little of the profit as possible to the people actually making the product or providing the service.
Simple. You know all those scientists that work at $40 billion chip plants? They would actually take the $40 billion and not some random suit who doesn’t do any of the actual work. Executive leadership is important, but it’s not worth 1000x the average worker’s salary.
Work isn’t just physical you know. Management, planning, etc is work too, and they’d get paid according to how many want to do them, and how hard they are.
The difference is, like I said, that some greedy rich bastard who’d want to give as little of the profit as possible to the people actually making the product or providing the service wouldn’t own that means of production.
Co-ops and unions are certainly steps in the right direction, but they’re more like temporary band-aids over Capitalism instead of implementing proper Socialism.
Communism without actually sharing isn’t communism. Democracy without fair elections isn’t democracy. Socialism without the socialisation of the benefit of production is not socialism. Your ignorance of these things doesn’t change what they are.
All while the world’s current top superpower is right beside them, sees them as an enemy, and has a still ongoing embargo on them for 60 years now to prevent them from trading with other countries. That’ll hopefully change once China’s Belt and Road Initiative is complete though.
Clearly this model works. It does require expelling landleeches, plantation owners and billionaires if they don’t hand over the means of production to the workers (like Cuba did after the revolution), but I don’t think most people would mind that.
It also historically requires fighting off the US though because military, oil, and other private corporation owners can’t exploit Socialist countries as much, which is harder.
That’s an oxymoron. There is literally no such thing as a capitalist cooperative. By definition, co-ops are socialist. Also, the right wing populist wants to socialize the airlines?
If that’s what you think this says, then you completely misunderstand anarchism.
This book describes current and past societies that have functioned using anarchist principles such as horizontality, mutual aid, none of which are utopian, but all of which are significantly more equitable than systems like capitalism, feudalism, authoritarianism, and statehood.
Thank you for the link! AnarchistLibrary is cool but sometimes it’s hard to find the solid stuff from the tumblr rants.
I agree, it’s amazing how “revolutionary” it is to hold the idea that people can lead and cooperate just fine without a someone “on top” making all the rules everyone just follows because they say so. Some people just can’t fathom not being lead around by the nose.
They think we’re utopian, but I’d rather work towards an equitable world using anarchist principles, knowing it won’t create a utopia, than give up and let greed and hatred win out because that’s the status quo.
“This current situation is the best we’ve got so far” is such a low bar.
Amen. One of the things I like best about anarchism is it introduces concepts that we can begin to practice immediately vs. awaiting some future revolution.
I really like the book I linked because to me it’s so much easier to read and digest than some of the famous works by authors like Kropotkin or Goldman.
And the solution is?
Democratically owning the means of production among the workers. Instead of some greedy rich guy who’d want to give as little of the profit as possible to the people actually making the product or providing the service.
See, that works for a farm.
I don’t see how it works for a $40 billion chip fabrication plant.
Simple. You know all those scientists that work at $40 billion chip plants? They would actually take the $40 billion and not some random suit who doesn’t do any of the actual work. Executive leadership is important, but it’s not worth 1000x the average worker’s salary.
So who builds it? Do you just get together with 40,000 of your friends and go “hey if everyone here chips in a million, we can compete with TSMC”?
Oh no, a challenge. Let’s not even try.
Organizing it through a Socialist government would probably be the easiest.
And complaining about such a tiny challenge is hilarious lmao
There are examples of exactly this occuring regarding renewables, there are community funded battery/solar farms here in Aus.
If it can be done on that scale, it can definitely be scaled up, it’s just a matter of willingness of the community.
Work isn’t just physical you know. Management, planning, etc is work too, and they’d get paid according to how many want to do them, and how hard they are.
The difference is, like I said, that some greedy rich bastard who’d want to give as little of the profit as possible to the people actually making the product or providing the service wouldn’t own that means of production.
You mean capitalist cooperatives? They exist and even Milei wants to turn Aerolíneas Argentinas into one
Co-ops and unions are certainly steps in the right direction, but they’re more like temporary band-aids over Capitalism instead of implementing proper Socialism.
deleted by creator
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Cuba has one of the most open democracies in the world
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Because proper socialism always devolves into tyranny
As capitalism is currently doing…
Source?
[gestures wildly at everything]
Strawman.
People always say this and then fail to provide a single example of when proper socialism existed and then destroyed the country.
“This theory when applied didn’t end like in the book, therefore it’s not really that theory”
Communism without actually sharing isn’t communism. Democracy without fair elections isn’t democracy. Socialism without the socialisation of the benefit of production is not socialism. Your ignorance of these things doesn’t change what they are.
Again, the “the theory when applied doesn’t look like in the book so it’s not real communism”
How so? Cuba has one of the most open democracies in the world. Plus free healthcare, no homelessness, and enough free high level education to provide Italy with doctors during the pandemic.
All while the world’s current top superpower is right beside them, sees them as an enemy, and has a still ongoing embargo on them for 60 years now to prevent them from trading with other countries. That’ll hopefully change once China’s Belt and Road Initiative is complete though.
Clearly this model works. It does require expelling landleeches, plantation owners and billionaires if they don’t hand over the means of production to the workers (like Cuba did after the revolution), but I don’t think most people would mind that.
It also historically requires fighting off the US though because military, oil, and other private corporation owners can’t exploit Socialist countries as much, which is harder.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Cuba has one of the most open democracies in the world
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
That first paragraph already proves that you can’t be reasoned with
So you understand my point. Thanks lol
No, it’s just pointless to argue with someone so out of touch with reality he believes Cuba is one of the most democratic countries
That’s an oxymoron. There is literally no such thing as a capitalist cooperative. By definition, co-ops are socialist. Also, the right wing populist wants to socialize the airlines?
Yes, he does want to give the airlines to the workers
Also touch some fucking grass to see how agricultural cooperatives work under capitalism
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works
Bro thinks an utopia will work
If that’s what you think this says, then you completely misunderstand anarchism.
This book describes current and past societies that have functioned using anarchist principles such as horizontality, mutual aid, none of which are utopian, but all of which are significantly more equitable than systems like capitalism, feudalism, authoritarianism, and statehood.
Thank you for the link! AnarchistLibrary is cool but sometimes it’s hard to find the solid stuff from the tumblr rants.
I agree, it’s amazing how “revolutionary” it is to hold the idea that people can lead and cooperate just fine without a someone “on top” making all the rules everyone just follows because they say so. Some people just can’t fathom not being lead around by the nose.
They think we’re utopian, but I’d rather work towards an equitable world using anarchist principles, knowing it won’t create a utopia, than give up and let greed and hatred win out because that’s the status quo.
“This current situation is the best we’ve got so far” is such a low bar.
Amen. One of the things I like best about anarchism is it introduces concepts that we can begin to practice immediately vs. awaiting some future revolution.
I really like the book I linked because to me it’s so much easier to read and digest than some of the famous works by authors like Kropotkin or Goldman.
Audible Anarchist has also uploaded a few chapters from the book, which I’ve been listening to on my walks: https://piped.privacydev.net/channel/UCaO1QA8QL99_eb0XhJI2Fyw
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaO1QA8QL99_eb0XhJI2Fyw
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/channel/UCaO1QA8QL99_eb0XhJI2Fyw
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
My ex-wife liked to practice horizontality with everyone she met.
I, too, choose to practice horizontality with SatansMaggotyCumFart’s wife
Ex-wife.
Very important distinction.
Ayyyyy