So the work I do is 100% remote now. I moved to Southern California because of an industry that has in part moved to remote work. My only requirements are a temperate climate, nature access and hopefully a blue-ish state. Is there a place out there that makes sense financially? I’m hoping to buy a house less then 500k. I don’t need access to large cities as I honestly don’t do anything. The only requirement I can think of is access to solid internet as I stream full screen video for what I do.
I’m currently looking at Michigan and Virginia as options.
A lot of people in Michigan are expecting the state population to boom in the coming decades. No earthquakes or hurricanes, minimal wildfires and tornadoes. Lots of access to fresh water.
We passed a ballot initiative in 2018 that made an independent committee draw up congressional districts and wouldn’t you know it, the state suddenly went blue when no one could gerrymander anymore! Legal recreational weed, legal abortion, free school lunches, the progressives are moving fast with the new majority.
What area all depends on how much winter you can take. Detroit-Ann Arbor area is probably the mildest, followed by Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo (great cities, lake effect snow storms), Up North (even worse snow) and da UP (Marquette is amazing but if you don’t like snow sports you’ll go insane).
$500k will but you a great house in some suburbs or a decent house in a hot market.
The Upper Peninsula is actually one of the places that is likely to be least affected by Climate Change. Expect an influx of climate refugees as time goes on.
If I had to up and move, it’s definitely an area I would consider. I fell in love with Marquette while watching Joe Pera Talks With You which was set in and shot in Marquette.
And to consider another looming environmental catastrophe: the currently rising water scarcity can’t scare you too much if you live next to one of the largest freshwater lakes in the world.
Another way of looking at it: if the entire world becomes really desperate for the resource in your backyard, your backyard is about to be ruined
I mean, I guess that depends. History is littered with countries that got destroyed because they got suddenly wealthy, like what happened to Nauru; but also of countries that thrived and are still thriving on a well-protected, sustainably obtained natural resource. I’d be more worried if the situation was more sudden and taking people with their pants down, but it’s been a very slow burn over decades.
What would you say are the downsides to southern Michigan? I’m seriously considering MI and just curious what the downsides would be. I don’t mind some snow.
Being incredibly car-centric is probably our biggest issue in my opinion. If you’re expecting to be able to use public transit or even walk to basic necessities, and are looking to purchase a house, you’d likely be looking at areas outside of your price range, generally within highly urbanized city centers. Owning a car is very much the norm here, even within those urban environments.
Luckily I go nowhere and have no desire to do so. Beyond having to go to a store or two a few times a month, my needs are few and far between
I’m from Kalamazoo. Lived in the sf bay now for the past 12+ years and many other places in between.
Winter is no joke, and drags on for a very long time. Diversity is much less than elsewhere I’ve lived (esp compared to the east bay), as a mixed race person my experience growing up was so much different than my kids’ experience in Berkeley. Kzoo is halfway between Chicago and Detroit so not horrible but any big name concerts or museum shows or whatever require a few hours of travel. Like another poster said, also car culture - nobody walks anywhere nor can you feasibly do so (not just because of winter but also due to the influence of Detroit) and outside of AA public transportation is non-existent. And the job market in general isn’t great (if you are working remote maybe it doesn’t matter, but at least in tech the salaries are significantly less even in Ann Arbor or Chicagoland area vs California, and the number of opportunities way fewer).
Thanks for the info! I don’t care about access to anything significant. I’m currently in SoCal and quite honestly don’t leave my house much do to being remote and many personal issues. Looking to just make ends meet doing my remote job where my money and sanity can go the longest. Enjoy nature, seclusion and a temperate climate.
I’d say the best places to reside in Michigan are going to be in the lower half of the Lower Penninsula if you want a temperate climate. Doesn’t mean winter won’t fuck your shit up at least two or three times a year.
Beautiful nature spots are a day trip or long weekend away and quite lovely, though smaller in scale than the sprawling, mountainous naturescapes of California. We don’t have anything quite as epic as Big Sur, Lake Tahoe, or the Redwoods here (souece: Michigander lived 13 years in the Bay Area), but we do have some very lovely areas and they’re imo much more accessible for the average Joe. Oh yeah and when fall comes in, the color is AMAZING. It’s a rather flat state all in all, though. Most places you have to drive to see anything rolling lamdscape-wise. It makes winter with all of the leaves off of the trees rather bleak if you’re in sputhern Michigan.
But, there’s a lot of interesting lore that you don’t really get anywhere else like Great Lakes shipping/shipwrecks, bootlegging hotspots, a fucking shit-ton of musical history, tons of breweries and local agricultural festivals. If you’re willing to pick and choose your urban areas, you can definitely find those spaces that have a Californian vibe about them, but they’re not really centralized.
It’s really flat here compared to California, you can’t just drive a couple hours to get what you call hills and we call mountains. The Great Lakes are great but they’re not an ocean.
Flights from DTW are more expensive than from big cities. It’s funny that Detroit is 2,000 miles closer to Europe than SFO, but flights to Europe from SFO are cheaper.
We started getting wildfire smoke from Canada this year, but I imagine we’re still doing better than SoCal.
California is still more progressive than Michigan, but we also don’t have as much craziness around ballot initiatives.
I adore Detroit, but it’s no LA or SF. Chicago is about 4 hours away.
Regarding Detroit, when I step back and look at the country from a climate perspective, it looks great. From what I’ve been exposed to media wise, it sounds scary and crime ridden. I live on the outskirts of LA county, so I’m no stranger to a large city next door. Why wouldn’t I want to be looking at a town 30 minutes or so from Detroit? It seems like a logical option from my perspective.
There are some incredibly rich and affluent communities with very safe neighborhoods in some of the “suburbs of Detroit”. Metro Detroit is a much larger area than Detroit itself and there are many types of communities to choose from.
Random interesting trivia…but the city of Dearborn in that area is home to some of the largest number of Arabic speaking individuals. There will even be signs in the downtain area written in Arabic instead of English. It’s not a city I would recommend to live in due to safety, but it’s a random interesting blub I wanted to word vomit out lol.
Winters in Michigan can be absolutely gorgeous when there is a fresh snow…but unfortunately much of winter is just freezing, brown, ugly, and incredibly dark and depressing (less sunlight hours in Northern winters due to the position on the globe). Subjectively, winter seems to last around 5 months out of the year. It starts late October to early November and lasts until mid April.
Thanks for the info!
Detroit has some great suburbs (check out areas like Ferndale and Plymouth/Canton), but don’t write off Detroit based on what you’ve read in the media. A lot of people in Michigan are in the same boat as you and are missing out on what Detroit has to offer because of what they think Detroit is.
If you’ve never experienced upper Midwest winters, you’ll be in for an interesting experience.
Also, not much in the way of topology, contrasting with SoCal.
I grew up in Chicago and got out of the entire area as soon as possible, due to (in no particular order) allergies, weather, and seasonal affective disorder.
I live in SoCal now and love it here, but climate change will probably force us elsewhere within 20 years. We already spend most of the summer somewhere else to escape the heat.
Moved to Kalamazoo in 2015 for school and haven’t left, really love it here and it sounds like a good fit for OP maybe. From my experience, pretty good remote/wfh options.
Nothing to add, but this is a wildly distopian thread.
It’s the world we live in sadly
Yeah imagine reading this post like 30 years ago
West Virginia. No I’m not kidding.
They will pay you $12,000 to move there. Housing costs are absurdly low. Morgantown is a thriving university town close to Pittsburgh. And the eastern panhandle has a lot of access to VA & MD.
Move there and vote please.
I’m seriously considering this, thanks. If you had to say, what are the downsides of West VA?
Poor infrastructure, schools, and amenities.
Go on….
If you’re trying to find work if the remote gig fails, good friggin luck
Yeah, this is definitely a thought, but in all honestly, it’s either remote work or one end of a shotgun for me
West Virginians.
Country Roads, take me home…
Sounds like a deal!
I just fell in love with West Virginia a few weeks back. So beautiful and while not a blue state, exactly, the people there were so welcoming and kind.
Are they still giving out free mountain bikes to new residents?
I know you said the US but have you considered moving abroad? If you want a similar timezone to the States, Mexico and Chile have pretty easy immigration programs you should be able to qualify for without much effort… The crime rate in Chile is about the same as Canada IIRC. I left the US in 2017 and I honestly could not imagine coming back at this point.
If you’re looking at Michigan I would also consider Minnesota. They have voted blue for the most presidential in a row and this last session with democratic majority has made huge gains. Michigan and Minnesota are showing what Midwestern values really mean.
The Twin Cities of Minneapolis and Saint Paul are quite large together so you can get most amenities including one of every major sport league. Housing is no longer cheap within the cities because people from out of state are coming back to buy them. But there’s tons of jobs and fortune 500 companies headquartered here.
Greater Minnesota has lots of smaller cities as well. Rochester, Brainard or Duluth all got their charms. Duluth has been listed as best city in the nation for it’s cheaper coat of living with good job opportunities. Duluth gets real bad winters so get prepared for it. But it’s better to be too cold than too hot
One of the other interesting twin cities facts is that we have a very large theater scene, one of the biggest in the nation outside NYC.
I know we get all the big Broadway hits but a few years afterwards. I know they stop at Chicago and other larger cities first
When you’re looking at Virginia keep in mind that Northern Virginia is what makes Virginia blue. Most of Virginia is purple or red especially the farther you get from DC.
Richmond, Hampton Roads, and Charlottesville contribute as well, but basically if it’s not a city or the suburbs of one, it’s red as a sunburn.
north of Sacramento and south of Seattle… for that price you’ll have to be inland a few miles.
south of Seattle
Dear god please no. I’ve been here in “South of Seattle” for a good portion of my life, and due to the influx of remote workers, I’m being priced out. Restaurants are shutting down because the workers can’t afford to live in the city anymore.
I know that’s not the fault of the remote workers, it’s the fault of a capitalist system that refuses to budge on pay for work that just a few years ago was deemed “essential” and these people were expected to brave a deadly pandemic to keep things running but are now back to being treated as disposable and replaceable. They’re pretty over it, and many of them are giving up on cities like this because of it.
Would you say that’s a bit cold year round? What are the summers like?
South of Seattle (South King or North Pierce counties, or even further south, closer to Olympia) gets occasional snow in the winter, and occasional 100+ degree days in the summer. Summer is gorgeous FTMP, with temps around 75-80 most days. Oct-Mar can be rough if you’re prone to seasonal depression, from the lack of sunshine. Plan to vacation somewhere sunny for a week some time in January or February, and you’ll do better.
I will say this specific area is pretty rural and red, vs the city centers closer to Seattle and Tacoma.
Michigan gets frigid winters, doesn’t it?
Michigan definitely gets cold if you’re north. Places like Holland, MI seem a bit warmer
Shitload of snow too though, but that is all of Michigan
I don’t mind a bit of snow, especially considering I don’t commute or go anywhere
Lol it can be a lot some times but if you’re working from home you kinda get to choose to go out in it so not nearly as painful. Michigan is awesome.
If you don’t mind the snow, I can strongly recommend south east Michigan. I love it here. You could get a nice home with a large yard, especially if you go a little more rural. You are also likely going to be within an hour of DTW airport, which is a delta hub so you can fly to a lot of places direct.
Take a look at Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti, and Ferndale.
Thanks! Really feeling Michigan as an option
Give it 10 years. With climate change we may be in the 50s and 60s all winter long.
Sad state of affairs for the world unfortunately have guided my choices in this matter
I will say this specific area is pretty rural and red
That’s really farther South or East, really. Olympia is largely “progressive” (of the rich, slightly out of touch, white liberal variety) and that attitude extends to the city suburbs. The only area where that might not be as true is Lacey, which has way more of the JBLM population living there.
Speaking of which, because of JBLM and basically daily accidents on I-5, going anywhere North from the Olympia area is a fucking crapshoot. An accident can shut down I-5 for hours and because of the nature of the area, there’s not a lot of side-roads to offload traffic onto, I-5 is really the main thoroughfare. It’s not as bad going south because there’s less traffic going south, so fewer accidents. But if you want to visit a friend on Tacoma, or catch a flight out of SeaTac, or see a show in Seattle… you pretty much have to add a guesstimated 2-3 hours of travel time depending on how far north you’re going based on how long traffic could be backed up if there’s a severe accident.
The frequency of accidents honestly keeps me off of I-5 because holy fucking shit. I don’t want one of those accidents to involve me. A lot of them are real bad.
Yeah, I was thinking of areas like Enumclaw, Bonney Lake, and Puyallup. You can definitely get a (smaller) house for under 500k in those areas, but I’m not sure if it quite fits OP’s political preference.
but I’m not sure if it quite fits OP’s political preference.
I’m not even sure you could peg a political line on this area other than “meth.” Also, for whatever reason, I always think of them as far southeast of Tacoma.
Although, it can be argued if you want the political climate of those areas to change, people with different politics need to move there.
However, I think that whole area is experiencing a huge influx of remote workers as well, as it is. Rents have been rising all over.
North of Sacramento? Not cold at all, and there are lots of great places to get out in nature. I can’t speak to Seattle much, it will get colder than Sacramento but the nature is probably even better. Summer near Sac can be very warm and get over 100, but that’s becoming more common more places
I’ll check it out, thanks!
Eureka is quite nice.
CA north of SAC is definitely not “blue-ish” in the slightest. Towns like Yreka are basically de-industrialized, the locals blame “environmentalists” for that, and now Siskiyou County goes like 70% Trump.
Also, Redding is an absolute shithole.
NM has what you’re looking for; cost of living is very low, you can kind of pick the climate you want. We’re also blue as a twitter check-mark. We’re not super-diverse though; mostly white and Mexican descent depending on where you hang your hat.
What does NM stand for?
New Mexico.
Thanks for answering them… but I have to say I had a good laugh at people not knowing NM. It makes sense though, if people don’t know the name well maybe not many people have driven up prices there yet
Well I’m coming from Europe, we don’t hear abbrevations of US states very often ;)
Lol. Not even a minute after I answered that, I was stumped by someone saying MD. Took me a minute to remember Maryland exists. Also there’s a large part of the population that hears New Mexico and assumes that since it has Mexico in the name it can’t possibly be a state in the US.
If you find 7 mins to kill and havent heard/seen the gary gulman stand up about abbreviating the states it’s pretty good.
fwiw you should probably add walkability and public transport to that list, it’s one of the most significant improvements you can make to your general physical and mental health, as well as saving a disgusting amount of money on not needing a car to buy groceries.
Seriously consider Scranton, PA. I live here and most houses go for well under your budget. You get all the seasons, are surrounded by state forest, and multi gigabit internet is available (thru Comcast unfortunately but other ISP’s are moving in soon). Also it’s in a county that remained blue during PA’s 2016 turn to red.
Would you say there’s any downsides to PA? Scranton seems like it may fall on the colder side yearly but not too bad
PA can be fairly cold expect snow and ice every year. It does snow in Virginia as well but I can tell you it’s on average atleast 10 degrees warmer in VA vs PA year round. (Lived in both areas). Virginia is wetter (and far more humid than CA) and has more hills since Appalachia cuts right through a lot of the western part of the state. If you don’t like the outdoors I’d suggest eastern Virginia. If you like the outdoors western Virginia is great for outdoor activity (hit or miss on things like high speed internet, research any specific towns your interested in out there.) One thing I will say is that Virginia is NOT blue. But then Scranton is probably considered the beginnings of Pennsyltucky too.
Scranton is a dot of blue surrounded by red…but overall the area is fairly moderate with a few crazies.
Thanks!
The Scranton Strangler qualifies as a downside…
I mean yes…but Scranton has made one of those safest cities in the US lists…I think like top 100
I know this was a joke but it is actually interesting…supposedly Scranton was the first city in the US (or maybe PA) with electric street lights.
It sounds like you want to move to Oregon or Washington. They have way better climates than Michigan.
Oregon is blue, but mostly in the cities where home prices and cost of living are both high. Moving away from the cities give better affordability, but it turns red quickly. So pick your poison.
That’s true anywhere in the country though. Not a lot of blue rednecks.
You can do ok for 500k here in Rhode Island. No mountain wilderness, but the beaches and islands are gorgeous, and there’s lots of nature to the western part of the state.
Thanks will check it out!
The waterfires more than make up for it though!
Western MD, upstate NY, somewhere in Illinois that’s not Chicago, western Oregon that’s not Portland…just off the top of my head. Those are all decent places in terms of long-term climate change issues, as well. Basically, pick a blue state, go to a red rural part. Blue state laws, red state prices. I’d be careful long-term considering Michigan and Virginia safely blue, as well.
Thanks!
How “temperate” are we talking here? Michigan will for sure have actual winter. Is temperate comparable to SoCal, or just not absolutely miserable winters?
Come to Manitoba lmao
Saskatchewan and Manitoba 😭
Awwwww hell naw. Pretty sure everyone there is suicidal and desperately trying to escape. Not to mention that 98% of the population is all concentrated in Winnipeg since the rest is an Arctic tundra and impenetrable pine forests.
Pennsylvania, depends on what you’d like exactly. Small city? Lancaster fits the bill perfectly. Big city? You have Pittsburg. Massive city? Philadelphia.
I’d vouch for Lancaster though, it’s very blue, very diverse, the area is on the cheaper side; and the city is thriving and growing extremely well. It’s a quaint little city. Further you get access to the absolutely gorgeous Appalachia with just a 20min-1 hour drive to various breathtaking national parks, state parks, lakes, mountains, and game lands.
The city is very walkable and is mainly pedestrian focused with a pretty good public transit system. Everyone also bikes everywhere and they are more common then cars. There are also several colleges and the historical Franklin and Marshall College so the area is maintained well and looked after.
Plenty of houses and apartments for less then 500k and the vast majority of the market is under 800k with not many outliers.
Climate is temperate year round, you have access to a major city as Philly is 1 hour away, there are scenes for pretty much anything, LGBT? Check. Art? Check. Film? Check. Alcohol? Check. Politics? Check. There’s something for every hobby.
Due to Franklin and Marshall and several companies there is a decently sized programmer, streamer, Youtuber, and computer scene as well since you might be interested in that.
The broadband and internet infrastructure is also very good and you can have direct access to fiber ground wire if you pay, so internet speeds can be lightening fast.
It honestly ticks all your boxes!
