• AngryBear@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    If there “are no women”, because gender is just between the ears, then there are no men and there no women, so there is no patriarchy.

    • Toneswirly@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      “Patriarchy.” You use the word but you dont know what it means. We’re not talking about heads of households, we’re talking about the halls of power; which are controlled by cis men. Gender Equality advocates are not making claims that “men don’t exist,” just that gender its a highly varied spectrum. My guess is you already know this, and willfully ignore nuance so you can push a counter ideological stance. That makes you a lame-o. Sorry.

      • AngryBear@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Go move to Saudie Arabia or Qatar or some middle eastern country, any country in Africa or Asia. Now come back to the west. Get over yourself. You don’t live in a patriarchal society, and you have never been more free in any time in the entire history of mankind, as either male or female, or however you may identify yourself.

    • VirulentAura@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      That’s cool, except if only certain people with certain body configurations have the uncontrolled freedom to be themselves, that’s still a problem.

      Or, as long as people who do not identify with the body they were given are ostricized, there are problems. As long as there are people who are groped because their body is different, lynched because their skin is different, or kept out of certain rooms just because of growths on their bodies they have no control over, there are problems.

      Just because you remove a label doesn’t mean there isnt a problem any more.

      • Ajen@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        In that case, is “patriarchy” the right label? Most men (racial minorities, non-cis, etc) face systematic oppression, so it doesn’t seem like gender is the problem. Seems like oppression follows class lines, not gender, race, orientation, etc.

        • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Maybe Kyriarchy works better for you? It describes a multi layered and interactive web of stacked series of oppressive factors that encompasses race, class, gender, sexual orientation, ablism issues etc.

          Though under the definitions of patriarchy men are still oppressed. Young men and the poor are held in sway and looked at as disposable pawns and labor by the patriarchs - powerful men in the lead positions, like male heads of the family, but in this instance the ‘family’ is government, military, businesses and corperations, guilds, unions and bosses. The the buy in for those men at the bottom is that even a lowly man gets to feel like they are better at least than women. The act of being a woman is an automatic sort of failure state. Hence why men behaving in a feminine fashion are a threat. It subverts the hierarchy when someone willing chooses to behave as “lesser” of their own volition and seem happier for it.

        • tenitchyfingers@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Oppression follows ALL those lines. Oppression and privilege are intersections. That’s why a woman can be black but also be rich and live a better life than a dude who’s poor.

        • VirulentAura@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I don’t care if you call it The Wibbly Fuck Problem. Stop worrying about what it’s called and just do something about it. Damn. Everyone always worry about the unimportant shit.

          • Ajen@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            What are you doing to stop the ruling class from oppressing the rest of us? Seems like you’re just posting on Lemmy, same as me.

    • jocanib@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Something being a social construct does not mean it has no real world effects. That’s kind of the point of identifying it as a social construct. HTH

      • AngryBear@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Men women aren’t a social construct. Society structures around the biological facts of there being men and women or male and female, and what makes them different. Which is something that should be celebrated, not demonized.

        • lapingvino@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          It’s still a social construct if it’s based on facts. Social construct doesn’t mean fake, it means we gave it a name and meaning.

        • jocanib@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          So you do think there is a patriarchy? And you think it is based on fact, not the social construction of gender?

          • AngryBear@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I think I’m society men and women formed a structure based on strengths and weaknesses. This is neither dominated by men or women, not the way you want to see it. Which is why I made an earlier comment to go to places where men DO dominate society on every level and treat women like 2nd rate humans. If you truly believe we here in the west live in that way as well, we got nothing left to talk about.

            • jocanib@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              So, you think you live in a society where discrimination based on sex does not exist.

              Where is that, and what is your evidence for your claim?

              • AngryBear@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                I don’t know what country you live in, but no here in the Netherlands it’s pretty equal. My evidence? I live here.

                  • AngryBear@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Does that matter? I said the west, the west in general is fairly well balanced in terms of rights or equality. Maybe it’s different in Italy specifically but considering trans men can sign up for miss universe contests, apparently it’s not so bad.

    • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      No, there still is. Trans men suffer from all of the same patriarchal oppression that cis men suffer from. The loneliness, the isolation, the expectation that they have no emotion. If you somehow watch trans people TikTok, The men’s biggest complaint is that they now have no friends.

      So yes, the patriarchy exists even if gender is a construct. Because one of those constructed genders oppresses the others, and themselves.

    • vlad@lemmy.sdf.org
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      1 year ago

      And from what I’m being told by the internet, men make the best women.