I watched the last one twice just to be sure there was subtext and it was pretty astounding the disconnect between article writers, commenters, and the actual comedy.
Did he say āIām team terfā? He did. Yeah he did say that and that was fucked up. Agreed. (In whatever way context could be added, he was discussing the idea that one specific set of internal organs was currently capable of gestating a human. He said the terfs were saying that and he agreed with them on that point but he also discussed NCās bathroom bill and talked at length about how itās a bad law. He also defended trans rights at some length. But the āDave hates transā article writers donāt include those points)
But the other 99.99% of the special was objectively pro-trans. Including āAll trans people deserve love and respectā. The main point is you canāt get what heās doing from text. Standup has a bunch of moving parts: voice, inflection, setup, arc, theme, silliness, parody, jokes-within-jokes, and many other aspects that arenāt available in a text-only format like a comment or an article.
It seemed to me that he was making several really good points about being in a marginalized, oppressed minority, and the way the larger society talks about it. He used language to do that that wasnāt straight-on, direct, and clear because heās a comedian who tells jokes and so his way of doing it is building an elaborate framework around a topic or topics, and by talking about them heās getting across a larger message. Itās densely layered discussion underneath simple stories. Heās really good at it, fwiw, but thatās often immediately ignored and intentionally misrepresented to light him up for whatever the author wants to project.
Iām just saying if you watch his specials with an open mind, heās not anti-trans at all. And whenever it gets down to it, the people accusing him of it havenāt understood his show; often they havenāt watched it at all.
Now Ricky Gervais? Fuck. That guyās seriously anti-trans, ignorant and malicious, and putting Chappelle in with him is just wrong. Thank you for coming to my TEDx talk.
Whatās interesting is that I canāt even take this comment at face value, without further context. Is this a well-thought observation from the POV of a trans person who is intimately aware of their struggle in a broader context? Does this commenter understand the nature of comedy, or more specifically, Dave Chappelle, more deeply than I do? Can I add my opinion to this heated subject being a CIS male who is also a minority? Does any of the aforementioned even matter?
What I can say is that Iāve liked certain parts of his comedy. When it hits itās incredible. When it doesnāt I feel like Iām watching 80s Eddie Murphy again.
While I believe that anyone and anything is fair game in comedy, I donāt believe that how heās done it towards trans people has been in pursuit of comedy. In his previous specials it came across as shallow othering without the nuance that comes from actually seeing the subject as human. Thereās no payoff.
It just reminds me of my upbringing where gay (and queer) bashing for the sake of itself was normal. At this point in my life Iād rather continue distancing myself from that stuff than try to read between the lines.
Edit: to the OP, Iām not attacking your observation or character.
And whenever it gets down to it, the people accusing him of it havenāt understood his show
How do you interpret this joke from his new show?
Letās begin with the joke that got us going in āThe Dreamer.ā The late Norm MacDonald, we are told, had invited Chappelle to the filming of the movie āMan in the Moon,ā in which Jim Carrey played cryptic comedy icon Andy Kaufman. To Chappelleās dismay, Carrey remained steadfastly in character while on set.
Chappelle sighs, āI was very disappointed because I wanted to meet Jim Carrey and I had to pretend he was Andy Kaufman all afternoon. It was clearly Jim Carrey. I could look at him and clearly see it was Jim Carrey.ā Which brings us to the punchline: āThatās how trans people make me feel.ā
Because the only way I can read it is that heās saying trans people are inauthentic and fake, that they are pretending to be something they arenāt. But maybe we just arenāt as clever as you are and donāt understand it. Right? Or maybe you just donāt want to admit your favorite comic is a piece of shit.
But maybe we just arenāt as clever as you are and donāt understand it. Right? Or maybe you just donāt want to admit your favorite comic is a piece of shit
So, to be clear, you never actually wanted anyone to try and explain their interpretation of the bit?
Imagine jumping to the defence of this guy š¤Æš¤®
He then addressed the controversy surrounding his anti-trans material, saying, āIf you guys came here to this show tonight thinking that Iām going to make fun of those people again, youāve come to the wrong show. Iām not fucking with those people anymore. It wasnāt worth the trouble. I aināt saying shit about them. Maybe three or four times tonight, but thatās it. Iām tired of talking about them. And you want to know why Iām tired of talking about them? Because these people acted like I needed them to be funny. Well, thatās ridiculous. I donāt need you. I got a whole new angle coming. You guys will never see this shit coming. I aināt doing trans jokes no more.ā
He then said he was going to transition to joking about āhandicappedā people instead because ātheyāre not as organized as the gays. And I love punching down.ā
A few minutes later, Chappelle revisited the topic, saying, āTo be honest with you, Iāve been trying to repair my relationship with the transgender community cause I donāt want them to think that I donāt like them. You know how Iāve been repairing it? I wrote a play. I did. Cause I know that gays love plays. Itās a very sad play, but itās moving. Itās about a Black transgender woman whose pronoun is, sadly, n***a. Itās a tear-jerker. At the end of the play she dies of loneliness cause white liberals donāt know how to speak to her. Itās sad.ā
This just comes off as whiny. āIām getting cancelled again by being given another special, boo hoo.ā
And then uses literally the āone jokeā conservatives have about pronouns. Thereās nothing funny or creative about that joke. Itās been told a billion times by conservative talking heads.
Thereās an entire subreddit dedicated to it. r/onejoke
I mean, āshe died of lonliness because liberals canāt say the n wordā is pretty funny. And being offended about the pronoun joke but not the nword is also his point, I think.
And heās a fucking genius. Because, as far as I can tell, all of his trans jokes are really funny or nuanced. But his handicap jokes, some of them are just downright lame and insulting.
And everyoneās coming after him for his trans jokes, not his handicap jokes.
You canāt punch down on transpeople, their propaganda reach is massive. People are AFRAID to say the littlest bit negative about them.
Thatās why the handicap jokes. He wanted to show what actually happens when you punch down: nothing. No one gives a shit.
Anyway, thatās my headcanon. Otherwise, some of these handicap jokes are completely inexcusable and donāt live up to the standard set by his trans jokes.
*with a caveat. I watched his previous special as well to understand what people were saying. What Chappelle said in that special would not be problematic if said to a smaller audience. But a stand-up special to large audience, recorded to be put on Netlfix is not the stage to say where he said what he said: where it can be taken out of context easily and used in support of anti-trans arguments.
Maybe Iāve been looking in the wrong places but I have not seen nearly enough discussion of the idea that itās okay to say things that are iffy in confined spaces, especially for the sake of discussion. The relationship between gender and biology, and then the relationship between biology and society, and then the relationship between gender and society are extremely complex concepts around which open discussion should be not just allowed, but encouraged. However, that encouragement should be limited to conversations with a limited audience, not ones broadcast to an untold number of people. Broadcast messaging should not reinforce harmful stereotypes and echo negative statements about people, especially marginalized people.
Well put, far better than if I had tried. I do wish he wasnāt using his platform this way but I canāt help but feel itās misrepresented. I watched the first part of this special for context and a lot is lost just reading the plain text without his delivery.
If you think he shouldnāt be joking about it at all then that fine, but I think anything can be joked about and heās trying way better than anyone else making jokes on the topic.
And I hesitated to express that because I truly to do think Iām a good ally and I definitely want to be.
Edit: I understand Iām not owed an explanation, but sometimes I do wish people would tell me why they downvoted. Iām open to being wrong and learning from it.
At the risk of saying something negative - no.
I watched the last one twice just to be sure there was subtext and it was pretty astounding the disconnect between article writers, commenters, and the actual comedy.
Did he say āIām team terfā? He did. Yeah he did say that and that was fucked up. Agreed. (In whatever way context could be added, he was discussing the idea that one specific set of internal organs was currently capable of gestating a human. He said the terfs were saying that and he agreed with them on that point but he also discussed NCās bathroom bill and talked at length about how itās a bad law. He also defended trans rights at some length. But the āDave hates transā article writers donāt include those points)
But the other 99.99% of the special was objectively pro-trans. Including āAll trans people deserve love and respectā. The main point is you canāt get what heās doing from text. Standup has a bunch of moving parts: voice, inflection, setup, arc, theme, silliness, parody, jokes-within-jokes, and many other aspects that arenāt available in a text-only format like a comment or an article.
It seemed to me that he was making several really good points about being in a marginalized, oppressed minority, and the way the larger society talks about it. He used language to do that that wasnāt straight-on, direct, and clear because heās a comedian who tells jokes and so his way of doing it is building an elaborate framework around a topic or topics, and by talking about them heās getting across a larger message. Itās densely layered discussion underneath simple stories. Heās really good at it, fwiw, but thatās often immediately ignored and intentionally misrepresented to light him up for whatever the author wants to project.
Iām just saying if you watch his specials with an open mind, heās not anti-trans at all. And whenever it gets down to it, the people accusing him of it havenāt understood his show; often they havenāt watched it at all.
Now Ricky Gervais? Fuck. That guyās seriously anti-trans, ignorant and malicious, and putting Chappelle in with him is just wrong. Thank you for coming to my TEDx talk.
Whatās interesting is that I canāt even take this comment at face value, without further context. Is this a well-thought observation from the POV of a trans person who is intimately aware of their struggle in a broader context? Does this commenter understand the nature of comedy, or more specifically, Dave Chappelle, more deeply than I do? Can I add my opinion to this heated subject being a CIS male who is also a minority? Does any of the aforementioned even matter?
What I can say is that Iāve liked certain parts of his comedy. When it hits itās incredible. When it doesnāt I feel like Iām watching 80s Eddie Murphy again.
While I believe that anyone and anything is fair game in comedy, I donāt believe that how heās done it towards trans people has been in pursuit of comedy. In his previous specials it came across as shallow othering without the nuance that comes from actually seeing the subject as human. Thereās no payoff.
It just reminds me of my upbringing where gay (and queer) bashing for the sake of itself was normal. At this point in my life Iād rather continue distancing myself from that stuff than try to read between the lines.
Edit: to the OP, Iām not attacking your observation or character.
How do you interpret this joke from his new show?
Because the only way I can read it is that heās saying trans people are inauthentic and fake, that they are pretending to be something they arenāt. But maybe we just arenāt as clever as you are and donāt understand it. Right? Or maybe you just donāt want to admit your favorite comic is a piece of shit.
So, to be clear, you never actually wanted anyone to try and explain their interpretation of the bit?
Imagine jumping to the defence of this guy š¤Æš¤®
This joke is fucking hilarious
This just comes off as whiny. āIām getting cancelled again by being given another special, boo hoo.ā
And then uses literally the āone jokeā conservatives have about pronouns. Thereās nothing funny or creative about that joke. Itās been told a billion times by conservative talking heads.
Thereās an entire subreddit dedicated to it. r/onejoke
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I mean, āshe died of lonliness because liberals canāt say the n wordā is pretty funny. And being offended about the pronoun joke but not the nword is also his point, I think.
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And heās a fucking genius. Because, as far as I can tell, all of his trans jokes are really funny or nuanced. But his handicap jokes, some of them are just downright lame and insulting.
And everyoneās coming after him for his trans jokes, not his handicap jokes.
You canāt punch down on transpeople, their propaganda reach is massive. People are AFRAID to say the littlest bit negative about them.
Thatās why the handicap jokes. He wanted to show what actually happens when you punch down: nothing. No one gives a shit.
Anyway, thatās my headcanon. Otherwise, some of these handicap jokes are completely inexcusable and donāt live up to the standard set by his trans jokes.
Youāre the exact person theyāre talking about when they say youāre completely ignoring all nuance just to be offended
Haha itās actually pretty good!
That is a great punchline. Heās not saying that he - Dave Chapelle loves punching down. Heās saying: āI am a bigot said John.ā
You need to grow up.
Did you watch him say that or just read it and imagine his tone?
Dave fell off. Iāll always remember his older stuff fondly, but his ācomebackā stuff is boring.
I think I agree*
*with a caveat. I watched his previous special as well to understand what people were saying. What Chappelle said in that special would not be problematic if said to a smaller audience. But a stand-up special to large audience, recorded to be put on Netlfix is not the stage to say where he said what he said: where it can be taken out of context easily and used in support of anti-trans arguments.
Maybe Iāve been looking in the wrong places but I have not seen nearly enough discussion of the idea that itās okay to say things that are iffy in confined spaces, especially for the sake of discussion. The relationship between gender and biology, and then the relationship between biology and society, and then the relationship between gender and society are extremely complex concepts around which open discussion should be not just allowed, but encouraged. However, that encouragement should be limited to conversations with a limited audience, not ones broadcast to an untold number of people. Broadcast messaging should not reinforce harmful stereotypes and echo negative statements about people, especially marginalized people.
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Apologist gonna apologize.
Well put, far better than if I had tried. I do wish he wasnāt using his platform this way but I canāt help but feel itās misrepresented. I watched the first part of this special for context and a lot is lost just reading the plain text without his delivery.
If you think he shouldnāt be joking about it at all then that fine, but I think anything can be joked about and heās trying way better than anyone else making jokes on the topic.
And I hesitated to express that because I truly to do think Iām a good ally and I definitely want to be.
Edit: I understand Iām not owed an explanation, but sometimes I do wish people would tell me why they downvoted. Iām open to being wrong and learning from it.
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No one will agree with you even though youāre right.