There is a difference between being a “Hasan hater” and just disliking him. I think he’s a grifter, but I’m not going around stuffing my little piggy snout in every bit of Discourse that I can find about who he fucked when he was 19 or whatever, and I can’t imagine someone doing that who is the slightest trace of well-adjusted unless perhaps they’ve got some people in their lives who attached to Hasan, but even then there’s only so much that posting about it online can accomplish.
Out of curiosity and the desire to self-reflect: is pointing out he is a grifter and self-admitted John “piggy snout shit” in your opinion? I admit to being the sort who feels the need to shit people when they are, in my opinion/from my perspective praised unjustly. I hate parasocial nonsense, hence my desire to shit on the targets of Parasociality if that makes sense.
Feel free to be brutal, I would not have said this if I wasn’t open to being told I’m being wrong
I appreciate the invitation but I don’t especially feel a need to dunk here. It comes off as a little bit para-antisocial to talk about someone having sex with an escort once when they were younger as though it is a significant point of evidence to who they are now, but pointing out that he is a grifter is a much more reasonable thing to say (which is why I reaffirmed that claim).
It’s getting deep into the Lore about their personal life and shit that I think can come off as some measure of obsessive or creepy [ and to be clear, I know a decent amount of Lore about other figures, I just don’t rush to exposit about it unless I think it’s funny or important – and e-celebs are rarely important in any facet] Like when LiberalSocialist made that post about Hasan fucking Michael Jackson’s daughter or whatever, I think it was pretty consistently the reaction from others in the comments that LibSoc should find something better to do than learn the names of every woman Hasan has been inside and how they (LibSoc) feel about the moral ramifications of each case.
By contrast, having a basic judgement of someone, “grifter”, “interesting”, “conspiracist”, “not for me”, etc. is much more expected because that’s just how we navigate our respective environments when it comes to most things in life.
That makes a lot of sense, but the LS stuff all went over my head. Before my time. The MJ stuff is admittedly, intriguing, but if you don’t want to take the time to explain I won’t hold it against you.
I still feel using somebodies financial status to leverage them into sex aka CW:R (which is something all Johns do) is wrong and should be yelled at people who it.
God damn it, this is exactly . . . look, I know you said I could not but the tl;dr is just that he had a sexual relationship with some lady (who I remember being related to MJ) when she was, like, 17 and he was maybe 21, and they were basically inviting us all to engage in moral outrage over this fact like we should care or know his life enough to understand relevant dynamics. Some people had a Take but most people, not being Hasan biographers, basically did a . You can look in the modlog or whatever to find the post if you want to, LibSoc didn’t make that many posts and it was toward the end of their tenure here.
I still feel using somebodies financial status to leverage them into sex aka CW:R (which is something all Johns do) is wrong and should be yelled at people who it.
I agree, though there are a lot of radlibs on our instance who vehemently oppose this view. My point, however, is that from the sound of it this happened some time ago and isn’t necessarily something Hasan is proud of, so it seems like an unimpressive thing to bring up without further context. It was bad of him to do, but it is highly normalized – including deliberately and emphatically by maybe the bulk of the supposed “far left” in America – and not obviously violent (though you and I understand social violence), and it sounds like he was again pretty young at the time, so it’s the sort of thing where if he said “I know now that it’s shitty and don’t condone such activities” I think it’s just not very useful to litigate about it or hold it as some Scarlet Letter marking him forever.
I admit that, as someone who is pretty committed to the bit of Marxist philosophical theory, it is my inclination to say that moralizing and getting caught up in the mythos of individual public figures is broadly a waste of time, but that’s why I’ve been trying to couch things in terms of what comes off as being a bit too obsessive in one’s hatred.
I’m a complete hypocrite in this regard almost any time someone brings up, for example, the Hamilton musical. Every single time I just completely take the bait and talk about a bunch of different things I hate about that fucking thing because I really hate it, but in those cases I just sort of accept looking unhinged because I just don’t have a very good personality for being, say, a mod. I always get preoccupied with bugbears and axes-to-grind and such, though for some others I control it with a general audience because being able to repeat the bulk of lyrics from like 8* full albums of rappers I hate (don’t worry, I’m talking about shitty white rap) is not something you would be well-advised to demonstrate you can do with people who don’t already know you.
*and probably another good 12 for “mixed feelings that include severe criticism”
There is a difference between being a “Hasan hater” and just disliking him. I think he’s a grifter, but I’m not going around stuffing my little piggy snout in every bit of Discourse that I can find about who he fucked when he was 19 or whatever, and I can’t imagine someone doing that who is the slightest trace of well-adjusted unless perhaps they’ve got some people in their lives who attached to Hasan, but even then there’s only so much that posting about it online can accomplish.
Hm, good points.
Out of curiosity and the desire to self-reflect: is pointing out he is a grifter and self-admitted John “piggy snout shit” in your opinion? I admit to being the sort who feels the need to shit people when they are, in my opinion/from my perspective praised unjustly. I hate parasocial nonsense, hence my desire to shit on the targets of Parasociality if that makes sense.
Feel free to be brutal, I would not have said this if I wasn’t open to being told I’m being wrong
I appreciate the invitation but I don’t especially feel a need to dunk here. It comes off as a little bit para-antisocial to talk about someone having sex with an escort once when they were younger as though it is a significant point of evidence to who they are now, but pointing out that he is a grifter is a much more reasonable thing to say (which is why I reaffirmed that claim).
It’s getting deep into the Lore about their personal life and shit that I think can come off as some measure of obsessive or creepy [ and to be clear, I know a decent amount of Lore about other figures, I just don’t rush to exposit about it unless I think it’s funny or important – and e-celebs are rarely important in any facet] Like when LiberalSocialist made that post about Hasan fucking Michael Jackson’s daughter or whatever, I think it was pretty consistently the reaction from others in the comments that LibSoc should find something better to do than learn the names of every woman Hasan has been inside and how they (LibSoc) feel about the moral ramifications of each case.
By contrast, having a basic judgement of someone, “grifter”, “interesting”, “conspiracist”, “not for me”, etc. is much more expected because that’s just how we navigate our respective environments when it comes to most things in life.
Does that make sense?
That makes a lot of sense, but the LS stuff all went over my head. Before my time. The MJ stuff is admittedly, intriguing, but if you don’t want to take the time to explain I won’t hold it against you.
I still feel using somebodies financial status to leverage them into sex aka CW:R (which is something all Johns do) is wrong and should be yelled at people who it.
God damn it, this is exactly . . . look, I know you said I could not but the tl;dr is just that he had a sexual relationship with some lady (who I remember being related to MJ) when she was, like, 17 and he was maybe 21, and they were basically inviting us all to engage in moral outrage over this fact like we should care or know his life enough to understand relevant dynamics. Some people had a Take but most people, not being Hasan biographers, basically did a
. You can look in the modlog or whatever to find the post if you want to, LibSoc didn’t make that many posts and it was toward the end of their tenure here.
I agree, though there are a lot of radlibs on our instance who vehemently oppose this view. My point, however, is that from the sound of it this happened some time ago and isn’t necessarily something Hasan is proud of, so it seems like an unimpressive thing to bring up without further context. It was bad of him to do, but it is highly normalized – including deliberately and emphatically by maybe the bulk of the supposed “far left” in America – and not obviously violent (though you and I understand social violence), and it sounds like he was again pretty young at the time, so it’s the sort of thing where if he said “I know now that it’s shitty and don’t condone such activities” I think it’s just not very useful to litigate about it or hold it as some Scarlet Letter marking him forever.
I admit that, as someone who is pretty committed to the bit of Marxist philosophical theory, it is my inclination to say that moralizing and getting caught up in the mythos of individual public figures is broadly a waste of time, but that’s why I’ve been trying to couch things in terms of what comes off as being a bit too obsessive in one’s hatred.
I’m a complete hypocrite in this regard almost any time someone brings up, for example, the Hamilton musical. Every single time I just completely take the bait and talk about a bunch of different things I hate about that fucking thing because I really hate it, but in those cases I just sort of accept looking unhinged because I just don’t have a very good personality for being, say, a mod. I always get preoccupied with bugbears and axes-to-grind and such, though for some others I control it with a general audience because being able to repeat the bulk of lyrics from like 8* full albums of rappers I hate (don’t worry, I’m talking about shitty white rap) is not something you would be well-advised to demonstrate you can do with people who don’t already know you.
*and probably another good 12 for “mixed feelings that include severe criticism”