Around 1/3 of GDP is from state owned businesses. They definitely have a strong market economy there but my point was that capitalism causes greenhouse gas emissions like the guy I replied to stated is not true.
The original definition of capitalism used to be an economy where 90% of businesses and property are privately owned. And while I admit that the meaning of words tend to change over time I think that the meaning of capitalism was deliberately changed so that the Soviet Union doesn’t sound as insane as it was to future generations. L
Original definition according to who? Best I can tell from reading the literature, the definition in the public sphere was changed to this definition in the 20th century. Papers wrote of state capitalism in the 1880s. By the 1890s in Germany, the idea had already arisen that perhaps state socialism isn’t possible as it will always become state capitalism.
It’s strange, but I distinctly remember three different school books giving that exact definition. Yet, when I looked up the etymology for the word it said that it started out as a disparaging French word for money lender and was picked up by the British to describe anyone who made money in enterprise.
Decided to do some research after your questions. Turns out the word was used/coined by the French as a derogatory word for money lenders was co opted by the British later as a derogatory word for anyone involved in manufacturing and other base enterprises. And then some economists in the 80s and 90s tried to redefine it and even wrote that dedinition into some Social Studies and Economy textbooks that I remember reading throughout my life in school.
Not really. The “exact definition” of communist would be public ownership. Claiming that this is the same as state ownership, I think, would be giving way too much credit to China, it would imply that their government is legitimately carrying out the will of the public.
Also, “state-owned enterprises”, in China’s case, refer to capitalist enterprises in which the government is a major stakeholder. They’re publicly traded, are generally still primarily privately owned, they have profit motive, etc. That doesn’t sound particularly communist to me. These same kinds of enterprises exist all over Europe and North America, and we don’t call those “socialist or communist in nature.”
I have no idea what an anarchist communist is but I think this conversation got way off track. A communist country’s defining feature is that the public has (ostensibly) ownership of property which is typically through the state.
If you live on a literal commune somewhere of course the reality will be different.
The original conversation was regarding who produces pollution, a capitalist or communist nation, with my point being that it doesn’t matter what the form of government is.
Don’t forget that the biggest greenhouse gas produce is China which last I checked is not capitalist.
china is capitalist, also they produce less per capita than the US, this is silly
Oh what’s that, the party calls themselves communist? Guess north korea is a democracy now cause they call themselves that, this totally makes sense
Around 1/3 of GDP is from state owned businesses. They definitely have a strong market economy there but my point was that capitalism causes greenhouse gas emissions like the guy I replied to stated is not true.
State owned doesn’t mean not capitalist. This is silly.
The original definition of capitalism used to be an economy where 90% of businesses and property are privately owned. And while I admit that the meaning of words tend to change over time I think that the meaning of capitalism was deliberately changed so that the Soviet Union doesn’t sound as insane as it was to future generations. L
Original definition according to who? Best I can tell from reading the literature, the definition in the public sphere was changed to this definition in the 20th century. Papers wrote of state capitalism in the 1880s. By the 1890s in Germany, the idea had already arisen that perhaps state socialism isn’t possible as it will always become state capitalism.
It’s strange, but I distinctly remember three different school books giving that exact definition. Yet, when I looked up the etymology for the word it said that it started out as a disparaging French word for money lender and was picked up by the British to describe anyone who made money in enterprise.
That’s certainly a claim. One I’ve never heard before. You should probably provide a source for that, because that sound like bullshit.
Besides, I don’t think calling the Soviet Union “state capitalist” downplays how bad they were, especially when that’s coming from a leftist.
Decided to do some research after your questions. Turns out the word was used/coined by the French as a derogatory word for money lenders was co opted by the British later as a derogatory word for anyone involved in manufacturing and other base enterprises. And then some economists in the 80s and 90s tried to redefine it and even wrote that dedinition into some Social Studies and Economy textbooks that I remember reading throughout my life in school.
No but state owned is the exact definition of communist. China has a communist government which allows a high degree of market/capitalist activity.
Not really. The “exact definition” of communist would be public ownership. Claiming that this is the same as state ownership, I think, would be giving way too much credit to China, it would imply that their government is legitimately carrying out the will of the public.
Also, “state-owned enterprises”, in China’s case, refer to capitalist enterprises in which the government is a major stakeholder. They’re publicly traded, are generally still primarily privately owned, they have profit motive, etc. That doesn’t sound particularly communist to me. These same kinds of enterprises exist all over Europe and North America, and we don’t call those “socialist or communist in nature.”
The anarchist communists that have existed for at least 180 years would probably disagree with you.
I have no idea what an anarchist communist is but I think this conversation got way off track. A communist country’s defining feature is that the public has (ostensibly) ownership of property which is typically through the state.
If you live on a literal commune somewhere of course the reality will be different.
The original conversation was regarding who produces pollution, a capitalist or communist nation, with my point being that it doesn’t matter what the form of government is.
No, it’s definitely capitalist, even if not by name. And it produces a bunch of goods for a bunch of other capitalist countries, for profit.