Respecting the rights and land of indigenous people is not protesting wind power.
Just because you don’t agree with her opinions on neo-nazis and Sami people doesn’t mean all of her opinions are suddenly wrong.
This latest protest is especially relevant, because the current government in Sweden doesn’t believe in climate change and is actively trying to violate Sweden’s international climate obligations.
Wikipedia says she counter-protested against NMR, which is a Swedish neo-nazi group. Not sure what other protests she has attended that aren’t climate focused.
Climate change is an ecological, social and economical issue. You cannot reduce it to either dimension.
And you cannot solve climate change without adressing the social injustices in our societies that are excarberated by climate change, in the same way you cannot keep the economy afloat without adressing climate change.
Climate change is the absolute most critical issue humanity faces today.
It has to take priority over everything else.
This means building nuclear powerplants as soon as possible to enable us to close coal, gas and oil plants, it means building winmills on indegious land if that is the best place to build them.
How about we tear down your home and neighborbood and build a windfarm over it? You will also not be compensated in any way or enough. I accept no arguments here, this is literally what you’re saying is okay to do to someone else.
That is not what anyone has suggested we should do to indegious people and their homes. This type of strawman arguments are extremely counter-productive.
Yeah, it’s a problem in general. People can’t be experts on everything, and most contentious issues have at least two sides and a lot of complexity. Yet a lot of people go around pushing their strong opinions on others.
I hate the CCP and think they’re one of the biggest threats to humanity, but China is actually doing a good job of transitioning to renewables.
Also, a lot of the coal they’re burning is to manufacture products for people in other countries. Not really fair to get upset with them making things that would otherwise manufactured in your country.
I don’t think it matters. People can voice their opinion on other subjects without discrediting their opinion on climate change. This article isn’t even about Greta Thunberg’s other non-climate protests, so why are you taking focus away from environmental issues?
I disagree that it is “just gardening”, it can absolutely have a huge impact.
However I do realize that the upper classes also pollute far, far more than the lower classes.
My point is that if there is a point where there is a big project that would benefit the environment, and only affect the people a small ammount while loosing a lot of potential if it was built somewhere else, then the people living in the area should not get to stop the project. Climate change will cause far, far, far more problems than the small problems that a wind farm will cause.
Yes, however there are better ways to go about stealing other peoples land to save us all. Compromises will need to be made, and ones that don’t entirely fuck over the poor need to be fought for.
That’s fair, I suppose I am a bit jaded by people who start shouting about how terrible every little change to the area stopping big am imporant project that will benefit the entire country or the global environment.
I mean my comment was not only making fun of the outdated phraseology, but also the idea that social justice isn’t a legitimate branch of sociological and legal change that persisted ~10-20 years ago has been far blown out of the water
“social justice warriors” - who were considered risible in 2010 have since achieved
criminal justice reforms for youth jails
minimum pay raises and unionization of global corps (eg Starbucks) as a direct result of Occupy, to which the entire world now talks about Bank bail outs, billionaire taxes/wealth tax, borrow-die schemes, income inequality over the breakfast table
legal weed
BLM instrumental in making politicians renounce stop and frisk, to the extent Bloomberg had to renounce all his policies in his presidential run
#metoo leading to the conviction if Weinstein, and massive revolutions in the use of intimacy and consent coordinators and supervisors in entertainments Productions
DREAM act to DACA
rent reform in Seattle, Chicago, Denver, Long Beach, Orlando etc
no solutions as yet but everyone is mad about gerrymandering and voter suppression every election cycle now
New Green Deal
Slow but incremental advances in protecting children (and indeed adults) from gun violence and the slip of power from the NRA’s influence over elected politicians
Her dabbling in things like the Near-East conflict absolutely hurt her cause. It’s generally not a good idea to fragment something that you’re fighting for.
That’s a pretty German exclusive perspective. German media on the near east is not only extremely one-sided, it is completely isolated in its one-sidedness.
I didn’t mean it from that point of view. It simply has nothing to do with climate issues. And it’s a controversial topic that can split the movement thus weakening it. She is the face of Fridays for Future after all.
Don’t remember the context, and don’t want to defend Greta, but windmills can be very bad for the environment if done wrong. Hell, everything can be bad for the environment if done wrong.
Everyone has biases, anyone claiming not to are lying, I will absolutely admit that I am biased in some ways, I also try to recognize my bias and when it affects me and others negatively and try to compensate.
I’m involved in various leftist causes and see this shit so often. Like you feel like you need to be a “thought leader” instead of just staying in your lane. Or organizations just get taken over by people who have completely antithetical agendas.
For instance I was somewhat involved in our local DSA chapter for a few years after Bernie and I’m still on the email list. They just sent out a email about organizing a “queer and transgender prom” but that in order to attend you would have to have proof of up-to-date covid vaccination.
Now don’t get me wrong, queer and transgender proms are great if you’re into proms, but what does it have to do with democratic socialism?
Why on earth is the DSA the organization that is still flying the Moderna flag in 2024? Everybody else has given up on their mostly ineffective vaccines years ago. Also last I checked Big Pharma are the bad guys!
One of the things that excited me about Bernie and groups like DSA originally is that they seemed to serve as a new and revitalized economic left focused on salient issues and rejecting identity politics. I remember one of the rally cries was “racial politics are class politics.” But now they’re basically just yet another moveon.org or something.
You know nothing about me, apart from me finding Greta mostly irrrelevant, yet you seem to think that you know everything about me, and have started insulting me.
This is dumb, I get that we have a disagreement, but you don’t have to insult me.
Greta has become mostly irrelevant since she got caught up in the generic SJW protest movement.
She has even protested new wind powerplants.
Had she stayed an environmental activist she would still be relevant.
Respecting the rights and land of indigenous people is not protesting wind power.
Just because you don’t agree with her opinions on neo-nazis and Sami people doesn’t mean all of her opinions are suddenly wrong.
This latest protest is especially relevant, because the current government in Sweden doesn’t believe in climate change and is actively trying to violate Sweden’s international climate obligations.
Wait what is her opinion on neo-nazis?
Wikipedia says she counter-protested against NMR, which is a Swedish neo-nazi group. Not sure what other protests she has attended that aren’t climate focused.
I never claimed that her oppinions were all wrong, she could just have stayed outside the discussion and kept focus on the environmental issues.
Climate change is an ecological, social and economical issue. You cannot reduce it to either dimension.
And you cannot solve climate change without adressing the social injustices in our societies that are excarberated by climate change, in the same way you cannot keep the economy afloat without adressing climate change.
aka Intersectionality.
Climate change is the absolute most critical issue humanity faces today.
It has to take priority over everything else.
This means building nuclear powerplants as soon as possible to enable us to close coal, gas and oil plants, it means building winmills on indegious land if that is the best place to build them.
How about we tear down your home and neighborbood and build a windfarm over it? You will also not be compensated in any way or enough. I accept no arguments here, this is literally what you’re saying is okay to do to someone else.
That is not what anyone has suggested we should do to indegious people and their homes. This type of strawman arguments are extremely counter-productive.
Exactly, this is what I mean.
So far, I have not heard that they were going to tare down the houses to build the wind farm, do you have a source about that?
You’re absolutely right and don’t deserve the animosity you’re getting in this thread.
Thank you, I mean no disrespect to anyone who are fighting for a just cause, but activism dilution is absolutely a thing I see with regards to Greta
Yeah, it’s a problem in general. People can’t be experts on everything, and most contentious issues have at least two sides and a lot of complexity. Yet a lot of people go around pushing their strong opinions on others.
It’s not that big of a deal
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
The difference is that it’s not going to stop anyway because China’s not going to stop burning coal. It’s a global issue, not a local one.
I hate the CCP and think they’re one of the biggest threats to humanity, but China is actually doing a good job of transitioning to renewables.
Also, a lot of the coal they’re burning is to manufacture products for people in other countries. Not really fair to get upset with them making things that would otherwise manufactured in your country.
I don’t think it matters. People can voice their opinion on other subjects without discrediting their opinion on climate change. This article isn’t even about Greta Thunberg’s other non-climate protests, so why are you taking focus away from environmental issues?
I disagree that it is “just gardening”, it can absolutely have a huge impact.
However I do realize that the upper classes also pollute far, far more than the lower classes.
My point is that if there is a point where there is a big project that would benefit the environment, and only affect the people a small ammount while loosing a lot of potential if it was built somewhere else, then the people living in the area should not get to stop the project. Climate change will cause far, far, far more problems than the small problems that a wind farm will cause.
Yes, however there are better ways to go about stealing other peoples land to save us all. Compromises will need to be made, and ones that don’t entirely fuck over the poor need to be fought for.
That’s fair, I suppose I am a bit jaded by people who start shouting about how terrible every little change to the area stopping big am imporant project that will benefit the entire country or the global environment.
WHAT YEAR IS IT?!!?
Fair, I tried to find a better word for it, but drew a blank.
Reading this made me realize that I haven’t heard that term for a long time and that I probably missused it.
I am sorry for the misstake
I mean my comment was not only making fun of the outdated phraseology, but also the idea that social justice isn’t a legitimate branch of sociological and legal change that persisted ~10-20 years ago has been far blown out of the water
“social justice warriors” - who were considered risible in 2010 have since achieved
This is perfectly fair, I realize I should have used a better word/phrase to better describe my point.
Thank you for taking the time and breaking it down.
You actually need a paradigm shift mate.
how DARE she have a nuanced opinion on the matter!!1!
That is a fair take, just as I don’t have to like it
Her dabbling in things like the Near-East conflict absolutely hurt her cause. It’s generally not a good idea to fragment something that you’re fighting for.
That’s a pretty German exclusive perspective. German media on the near east is not only extremely one-sided, it is completely isolated in its one-sidedness.
I didn’t mean it from that point of view. It simply has nothing to do with climate issues. And it’s a controversial topic that can split the movement thus weakening it. She is the face of Fridays for Future after all.
Removed by mod
Don’t remember the context, and don’t want to defend Greta, but windmills can be very bad for the environment if done wrong. Hell, everything can be bad for the environment if done wrong.
I am not complaining about windmills as a concept, I like them, they look cool, I just brought it up as a reason why Greta is hypocritical.
Right, so you’re biased and full of it. Got it.
Everyone has biases, anyone claiming not to are lying, I will absolutely admit that I am biased in some ways, I also try to recognize my bias and when it affects me and others negatively and try to compensate.
I don’t see you doing that.
I don’t see them using a bias as a defense for shitty opinions, either.
Removed by mod
You hate people who disagree with you in a niche subject?
I’m involved in various leftist causes and see this shit so often. Like you feel like you need to be a “thought leader” instead of just staying in your lane. Or organizations just get taken over by people who have completely antithetical agendas.
For instance I was somewhat involved in our local DSA chapter for a few years after Bernie and I’m still on the email list. They just sent out a email about organizing a “queer and transgender prom” but that in order to attend you would have to have proof of up-to-date covid vaccination.
Now don’t get me wrong, queer and transgender proms are great if you’re into proms, but what does it have to do with democratic socialism?
Why on earth is the DSA the organization that is still flying the Moderna flag in 2024? Everybody else has given up on their mostly ineffective vaccines years ago. Also last I checked Big Pharma are the bad guys!
One of the things that excited me about Bernie and groups like DSA originally is that they seemed to serve as a new and revitalized economic left focused on salient issues and rejecting identity politics. I remember one of the rally cries was “racial politics are class politics.” But now they’re basically just yet another moveon.org or something.
That is basically how I feel as well, it is fine to just focus on one thing, you don’t have to do all at once.
I wish you all the best.
Removed by mod
Are you a mod?
You know nothing about me, apart from me finding Greta mostly irrrelevant, yet you seem to think that you know everything about me, and have started insulting me.
This is dumb, I get that we have a disagreement, but you don’t have to insult me.
Why go around attacking strangers on the Internet?
If you’re having issues see a therapist, don’t take it out on other people.