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I have no dog in this game, but I don’t see how buttcoin is a Ponzi scheme. If I’d compare it to anything it’s probably be tulips.
Energy costs alone will sink bitcoin longterm leaving only initial investors with any true value. It’s the very definition of a Ponzi scheme due to this unsustainablity.
If this is the definition of a ponzi scheme literally every currency could be considered a ponzi scheme. Why is the US dollar worth anything? Because enough people agree it is so if they stop agreeing it becomes worthless pieces of paper, or a ponzi scheme.
The US dollar has backing. It’s the faith and credit of the American government. It’s printed right on the currency. You could argue that bitcoin has this as well in it’s decentralized investment channel, but that’s where I’d then point out the fact that the US dollar does not have a runaway unsustainable cost built in. Bitcoin will always eat itself in energy costs. This will always be the case while the coin remains proof of work, which will also always be the case for a litany of reasons. You are trying to compare them at a small scale, but you need to think about the larger picture if you want to extrapolate out over the likely decades it will take for bitcoin to faulter.
None of that makes your definition of a ponzi scheme any more right. Crypto isn’t a ponzi scheme, it’s just really easy to turn into one just like any other investment.
You’re wrong. An inherently draining investment that has no realized value for early investors aside from people putting money in and that will one day die off by design is a Ponzi scheme. Also you need to understand that I am not speaking about crypto in general, which is concerning you don’t make the distinction, because they’re not all even remotely the same. You’re out of your damn mind if you think you can refer to Etherium or a Stablecoin in the same breath of legitimacy as bitcoin . Do not mistake the two, they’re not the same.
Here you go again assuming just because something is a bad investment it’s a ponzi scheme.
Also you need to understand that I am not speaking about crypto in general, which is concerning you don’t make the distinction, because they’re not all even remotely the same. You’re out of your damn mind if you think you can refer to Etherium or a Stablecoin in the same breath of legitimacy as bitcoin .
This is you missing my point entirely.
Early investment in bitcoin meant you could buy things with bitcoin. Not a ponzi scheme.
It’s actually you missing the point entirely. Just because you can trade your shares in it does not make it a legitimate investment, nor do I believe all investments need generate revenue. Investment is risk and loss is part of that.
Now, since you’re inclined to continue to be deluded, from the Wikipedia definition: “Named after Italian businessman Charles Ponzi, this scheme misleads investors by either falsely suggesting that profits are derived from legitimate business activities (whereas the business activities are non-existent), or by exaggerating the extent and profitability of the legitimate business activities, leveraging new investments to fabricate or supplement these profits”.
Bitcoin is not a currency. It’s design does not allow for it to be one longterm. It has a built in expiration date and cash flow drain with no legitimate business activity that generates value aside from new investors. The only way one generates value from bitcoin is new investors. The only way your coin is worth more money is new investors. That is what makes it a Ponzi scheme. Just because you can trade shares of your Ponzi scheme to others for their money does not make it an investment.
That’s not what a Ponzi scheme is. In a Ponzi, earlier investors are paid from what newer investors put in. While there have been Ponzi schemes that used Bitcoin or Ethereum or what-the-fuck-ever, they themselves aren’t Ponzis – they’re essentially commodities. They’re stupid, wasteful commodities, but what else is new?
With your definition, stocks and commodities are Ponzi schemes too. It’s clearly nonsense.
And no, before anybody starts getting any ideas, in case it’s not already blindingly obvious I’m not a “crypto fan” by any means. There’s some technologies and ideas there that might be useful in the long run, but 99% of the field is bullshit
Alright so please explain to me how investing into a sinking ship (which by design bitcoin is) on the concept that the sinking will be held off by newer continual investment doesn’t meet the definition? Bitcoin is 100% a Ponzi scheme because left alone there is a /continual and designed/ drain on the value of the “commodity” (this applies to all “proof of work” coins). Stocks don’t necessarily suffer this as the company is technically leveraged against the stock, but bitcoin only has the leverage of current invested value. If you combine this with the fact it’s unsustainable without continual new investment and given a long enough timeline will consume more and more electricity leading to runaway costs I don’t see how you don’t see the brick wall at the end of this tunnel labeled “hope you jumped ship” leaving longterm investors SOL without continual investment.
By your definition, the US dollar is also a ponzi scheme because if all of Gen Z and their children and future generations choose to conduct all their financial transactions in Euro then the US dollar will have no value. This is simply not the definition of a Ponzi scheme.
It is not my definition; feel free to Google it. The actual reality of bitcoins model falls well within that of a Ponzi scheme as the only derived long-term value comes from new investors and the long term model will continuously bleed more resources than sustainable running the network.
The US dollar is differentiated as it’s a secured currency backed by a legitimate business interest (the US government; citizens have no say in it. It does not matter if they wish to use Euros. They are forced to transact via the currency legally and thus it’s value is secured.)
How about the fact that it’s 14 years old now, has an approved ETF and is more stable than many stocks?
Let it go. You can go on hating without trying to rationalize it. It’s perfectly acceptable.
Bernie Madoff scheme covers both of your arguments: it lasted for ca. 17 years and even seemed quite legit at some point for Wall Street guys.
But then almost every business covers these two arguments?
I won’t and don’t want to convince anyone into bitcoin, but these cringe emotional arguments are just so… cringe. I get it, ten years ago they were kind of funny I guess. Now it’s just old. Like old drunk people at the bar repeating the same story over and over again.
