Bout damn time
It was predictable that this would get delayed to an election year… but at least fucking finally!!!
- “Americans will always do the right thing - after exhausting all other options” - Winston Churchill
“Winston Churchill once famously observed that Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.”
Langworth has combed through millions of words written by and about Churchill and found no evidence that the former prime minister ever said that about America.
You’re not really in a position to be criticizing people for lack of evidence, Jesus.
No, no! That’s not Jesus, that’s Jésus. He makes excellent menudo
Also a Philippines stew with pork and liver. (but i doubt many fillipinos are named Jesus.)
God is totally his dad! His mom said so, so it must be true!
…Really dude? God r/Atheism has migrated to Lemmy it seems.
The guy’s name isn’t even a religious statement, judging from his avatar he’s likely hispanic or latino, two groups in which Jesus is a common first name, isn’t even pronounced the same way as the Bible guy
It was a joke, dude. Lighten up.
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It’s hard to read sarcasm over the net, I thought you were literally mistaking a man named Jesus (No I don’t know how to get my keyboard to do the accented e) was a bible thumper based on username alone
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Your joke was “Christians bad” which is as offensive as it is played out and lame.
Holy shit man. It was a light-hearted joke about religions being based on faith rather than proof and the commenter’s display name matching that of a widely recognized religious figure.
Take your persecution complex somewhere else.
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Here’s an idea! You should change your name to include insufferable so it’s super relevant
Churchill really was a genius
And also a horrible racist
Eh who wasn’t then. Damn near every western country was cool with eugenics. Though Dachau opened less than 3 months after Hitler was appointed in Jan 1933, WW2 didn’t officially start for over 8 more years, with the invasion of Poland in Sept 1941…Auschwitz 1 wouldn’t have its ribbon-cutting for another 8 months, and extermination camps didn’t really get going for nearly another year and a half after that. And it didn’t officially end for 5 months after the closure of the death camps and Hitler’s suicide, when Japan surrendered.
There have always been progressives. Look at John Brown, violently anti-racist when most of society accepted a racial caste system as normal. We should hold the past to the same standard as the present, not dismiss old problems as “of the times.”
Well, just look at lemmy users around anything Biden related. No matter what, you’ll get people only talking about Gaza, and disregard all of the other good his administration has done for the 3.5 years they have been working.
This is why politicians wait for the popular, easy wins until its campaigning time. People have a short memory, and it’s always whatever the last big news story is that drives voters.
I’m so sorry that GENOCIDE is close to the worst thing to support/do.
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BS, they’re ignored when you insert them into arbitrary conversations to provoke a reaction
Supporting genocide and genocidal countries are or about the worst thing that one can do. It’s hard to do enough good to overcome that. I dare say it’s impossible. At least Hitler killed Hitler.
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I’d argue the opposite in a lot of cases, but not all.
I’m more excited about the medical portion of re-classifying.
edit I thought you meant the effects not the effects, so I agree with you.
I thought you meant the effects not the effects
Not sure that edit is clearing anything up.
I think they meant wrt the federal government.
But less bad than Fentanyl and other C-IIs, it sounds like.
This would have been a baby step 10 years ago if we’re being generous. California’s medical marijuana program has been a legal gray area since 1996. So what we can expect federal legalization in another 20 years at this rate? If biden touts this on the campaign trail as an accomplishment I’m going to lose my god damn mind.
This is so long overdue it doesn’t deserve celebration, it deserves a “what took so long, this isnt even controversial”. If your partner/roommate has been telling you to do the dishes for 20 years and you finally wash some you don’t get to turn around and go “look at me, I did 20% of the dishes! aren’t I great!”
I mean, that’s a pretty slippery slope of logic you’re on. We should have addressed anthropogenic climate change in the 70s, but I’m not gonna poo-poo the progress we’ve made.
I know it sucks that so many things change on a generational scale instead of a year scale, but I was also pretty damn happy about all that institutional inertia slowing down the hard-right turn we took during Trump’s 1st term.
Being happy with too little too late is exactly why climate change is going be as catastrophic as it will be so I really don’t get how that makes your case. If biden wanted to he could have pressured the dea to deschedule cannabis completely. He didn’t. The DNC hates to lose one of the carrots from their stick.
I’m gonna start working on a time machine, I’ll let you know when it works.
If it’s not already done, it’s too late to try or care.
Hence the time machine. Maybe I can change things, earlier.
…it’s a time machine. By its very nature, it’s never too late to try or care, just as long as you’ve built the damn thing.
Unless you were going for more of a
vibe… in which case, yeah, totally possible.
“I’m going to thank you for doing 1% of what you could and should have instead of demanding to know why you didn’t do more”
Well, if you want faster change, you should probably stop blaming the lack of progress on the people who are trying to make changes and start blaming the people who block the changes
That’s the problem, they’re not or barely trying. Descheduling cannabis was within reach of this administration, they chose not to.
It wasn’t within reach; republicans control the house; before midterms, the decisive vote in the senate was Manchin. Democrats introduce bills to legalize weed, but unless they get a big majority those are not passing, and a law from Congress is needed for legalization.
This is the best you can expect until more progressives are voted in.
The DEA has the authority to deschedule a drug without a legislative process.
It wasn’t within reach; republicans control the house; before midterms, the decisive vote in the senate was Manchin. Democrats introduce bills to legalize weed, but unless they get a big majority those are not passing, and a law from Congress is needed for legalization.
This is the best you can expect until more progressives are voted in.
Changing drug schedules, including removing a drug entirely from the schedules is a process that can be started by the DEA, HHS, public petition or Congress. Congress can just do it, while any of the others it involves DEA and HHS coordinating via the FDA and the DEA making the final call. IOW, literally the same process used to put pot on schedule III could have been used to deschedule pot entirely but they decided on schedule III instead.
This wasn’t the act of the legislative branch, this was the act of agencies under the executive branch. Specifically the DEA and FDA which fall under DOJ and DHHS, respectively. Who in turn are headed by the Attorney General and Secretary of HHS, who are appointed by (and ultimately report to) the President.
When people claim that Biden could legalize pot, they aren’t talking about something he has to negotiate with Congress and never have been - they’ve been talking about him ordering his direct appointees to push through the required bureaucratic process to do it themselves. And he eventually did, but only as a half measure.
Our federal government always moves slowly and almost always is decades behind popular opinion, that’s not news. What is news is that someone did something, and that person is Joe Biden. Even if it’s long overdue, and even if it could be better, he acted on the opportunity to make it happen and that deserves credit.
That not how any of this works. Politics requires these kind of changes to move gradually. The states went first and showed that it can work, albeit with severe hampering from the federal government.
Now there seems to be a public support for the next step and this is to gear up to allow dispensaries to become federally legal, have bank accounts and such. The government can then also regulate it in therma of quality and safety.
We all see the damaging nature of alcohol so that comparison is always a bit strange imho.
So we agree this is overdue, we disagree how much of a milestone this step is.
Porn is legal and it is hard to find a payment processor that won’t gouge you.
Puritan bullshit finds a way.
The biggest thing this does imo is unlock the ability for federal research dollars to study marijuana. There’s some other good thing sure that’ll pay dividends later on as steps towards more harm reduction, but getting off Schedule I IS a big step, if not a complete step to righting the wrongs of the war on (some) drugs.
doesn’t this allow banking as well?
It should, yes.
Oh man I can’t wait till “Dispensaries” are one of my credit card bonus categories. I’m gonna get so many points…
Agreed, Trump almost managed a coup, loaded the Supreme Court, and would fire random officials every other week… Then the democrats pretend the position of the president is powerless.
The establishment left are a joke.
Yeah, I’m really angry that the president didn’t “violate the law” to push through marijuana changes faster.
What were you hoping to see them do that they didn’t?
What, you mean experience and institutional knowledge are more important than undying loyalty and complacency with unilateral action?
The heritage Foundation’s 2025 plan doesn’t just go away if Trump loses the election. The Republican party just sit on it, and sit on it, and sit on it, until they are elected again… And they will be elected again.
So the establishment left needs to show some level of radical action to even “return” to centrist popularity.
The President pulling rank on The DEA isn’t illegal, and would ensure a full term where the electoral process could be reviewed and further secured, and an a number of Supreme Court justices could be impeached under a stronger set of anti-corruption laws instituted by a democratic effort.
Because sometimes corrective radicalism is called for and warranted… Like when someone almost does a coup.
The “pulling rank” the president is allowed to do, legally, is to order them to do a review of the scheduling. Which is what was done. Which finished, and now it’s being rescheduled.
The president doesn’t actually have the authority to order the DEA to change the scheduling.
Why are you acting like “appointing a DEA administrator that is pro-legalization” and “make public statements encouraging them to deschedule cannabis” are somehow unthinkable and totalitarian?
… Because that’s what they did? The question was what would you like them to do that they didn’t do.
Please give me 1 example of Biden encouraging his DEA to deschedule cannabis because I can’t find one and doubt it exists.
*downvoting me won’t make that statement exist. 2022 Biden statement on marijuana reform Notable absence: “marijuana should not be on the CSA list of scheduled drugs”. Interesting inclusion: ‘LSD is a good example of what should be a schedule 1 drug’
It doesn’t make you sound more credible when you skip over the part of the order where he directs HHS to review classification, which is all the president can legally order, to instead focus on the other part that isn’t actually a federal order.
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That roommate analogy hit me right in the feels. Was just thinking yesterday if my roommate even decided to do the trash or any cleaning once soon, i wouldn’t even be happy bc it hasn’t been done in 3+ years and there’s much to make up for. But positive reinforcement and all right? It took long, but we should probably celebrate if it does happen to keep encouraging the process and stoke that flame. Firmly stating “good job so far, but the job’s not done yet.”
Sounds like a half-assed fuck up, that’s still 6mo to 3y. For weed. still gonna go to jail, still get a record, still get your life ruined, still over fucking weed. The idea that jail is the appropriate punishment for drug addiction is utterly unjustifiable at this point, yet here we are, still pretending we’re something other than just wrong. Sunk cost fallacy I guess. Guess they felt they couldn’t just come out and do the right thing after having ruined tens(?) of thousands of lives for no reason
A prison sentence is a slave sentence, can’t give up that juicy juicy slave labor so easily.
:(
Unfortunately Oregon just proved decriminalization needs a functioning healthcare system to support it.
For weed I think we’d be fine.
Oh yeah, absolutely. I’m sorry my brain is on empty today.
No worries. Stay safe and sleep well.
How did they prove that? (genuinely asking, not being sarcastic)
They effectively did one without the other. From what I’ve been able to gather Oregon is actually one of the worst states for mental health and addiction care. Now of course they realized this and tried to appropriate money to deal with that. But they didn’t get enough and there was no lead time. They decriminalized before the new infrastructure was in place. So all of the aid groups and government health agencies that did exist were playing catch up the entire time. Imagine the crunch with the entire state emergency hiring counselors, trying to buy new buildings for safe use centers, and new inpatient centers; all at the same time.
So the net effect was people watched a drug problem get worse (because COVID did that all over the world) with less tools to deal with it than before. Instead of what they wanted to see, which would have been different tools to deal with it. In the end shutting it down and going back to arrests and courts became an easy case for Conservatives.
The lesson aid groups and governments should take away is not that decriminalization is bad. Just that they must have enough health infrastructure to deal with the problem because there’s a lot of people who would be in the prison system that are going to suddenly be in the health system. And a pandemic is a horrible time to make sweeping policy changes on anything but getting through the pandemic.
I’m glad that you shared this, because it’s good to know the pitfalls when implementing changes in policy. I want a robust and easy access healthcare system anyway, but it’s good to know it’s a prerequisite for softening on drugs.
You’re a legend, thanks for taking the time to reply, i appreciate it.
It moves pot to Schedule III, alongside ketamine…
Cool. Does this mean the next time the cops tell the EMTs to sedate someone they will skip the ketamine and just give the poor guy a gummy? I hope so. It’d save lives.
I don’t know about weed for that purpose… sometimes makes people more anxious. It’d be better if they just stopped forcing drugs on people period without the oversight of an actual doctor.
Seriously. The recent story of just how many people have died from the cops ‘giving them something to calm them down’ is insane. If you’re not my doctor, you don’t get to dose me with anything.
And that number was just the cases voluntarily reported or with legal cases that the AP could find.
Since we have literally zero reporting requirements at a federal level for police departments, it could be 10-100x as many deaths.
Cops job isn’t to protect you or I. It’s to protect the people who pay them and their interests. It’s just a government sanctioned gang and anyone who believes otherwise either isn’t paying attention or is one of the people who pay them.
We do pay for them in taxes
No true Scotsman fallacy. You can’t actually make the argument, which is why you realize you have to go straight to a logical fallacy.
…are you responding to the wrong comment, or do you not know what the no true Scotsman fallacy is lol
Neither. No true Scotsman (in this case someone not paying the police) would miss that they are a sanctioned gang. I guess I should also point out that it was coupled with an ad hominem as well, accusing them possibly not paying attention.
Pick your logic fallacy, I guess. Either way, they’ve made no actual argument and just preemptively attacked anyone who disagrees with them.
But there was no attack. There was no argument. Unless I’m completely mistaken, the thread was just a discussion of police in our society and you jumped in calling someone out and attempted to dismantle an argument that was never even made.
If we want to go with just pointing out fallacies for whatever reason, I guess I’ll go ahead and throw strawman out there?
Hold on, I think you’re right but the cops should carry around gummies and offer them to people. I can’t think of a better outreach program
“STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING OR I WILL MAKE YOU HIT THIS BLUNT”
YOU MOTHERFUCKERS WILL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE! THAT’S RIGHT, I’M GONNA FUCKIN’…Fuckin’…fuckin’…oh hey, you guys all right? What? On my head? Sure…what? Yeah I could probably use a lie down right now anyway.
SIR GET DOWN
I hope not. It’d take 2 hours and would just make me weird and nervous.
Ken Paxton about to sue the feds in 3…2…1
You know he’s gonna, right after he wrings out and drinks his nightly baby.
This thread demonstrates the idealogical purism and lack of pragmatic political expectations from leftists and progressives. There is literally nothing the Biden admin can do that will ever be enough because it doesn’t match some rosy fucking dreamland that only lives in your heads. Descheduling is huge, and signals the end of 100 years of madness with cannabis laws. If you want more, then we need to have more legislative power to implement it.
This is a fucking win, dumbasses.
Under Nixon, yes THAT Nixon, Congress wanted to pass UBI, but Democrats voted it down thinking it didn’t offer enough cash…
Even though common sense would tell you that establishing a UBI and raising it would be easier than getting a good paying UBI out of the gate
Yeah celebrate your wins or you may find yourself getting fewer
This is dumb. You’ve got thousands of recreational dispensaries all over the country. States are pretty much operating in violation of federal law already because the federal law is so out of touch. Maybe change the law to be more in line with what states are actually doing?
Do we get to wait another 50 years before they make recreational marijuana legal?
I don’t even smoke weed and I think this is dumb.
What you are suggesting is a legislative action. The nation needs to provide enough legislative power to happen.
The DEA has authority to schedule marijuana, it doesn’t require legislation.
*80
Why do we even have a DEA? It’s like putting cops in charge of which medicine you should take. They aren’t the ones who should be making the calls here.
“We knew we couldn’t arrest people for being pro-civil rights or against the war, but by associating crack with black people and marijuana with hippies, we could disrupt their movements. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did!” - Paraphrasing of the Nixon Administration recounting the “Good ol’ days”
associating
crackwith black peopleCrack did not exist in at that time. The CIA didn’t flood black communities with it until the 80s.
So that way disabled people know who’s boss
Like seriously as someone unable to function without prescription stimulants that’s how it’s always felt
The Enforcement part
You think doctors are going to be arresting addicts on the street? Then they are just cops
Why are we arresting addicts? If you want to arrest people for loitering or blocking the sidewalk, fine. But, arresting them for being an addict is asinine. How about we arrest people for having cancer while we are at it.
Relevance to picking who is enforcing the laws?
will this mean it can be prescribed in every state? By any doctors? Will it be able to covered by insurance? Medicaid/Medicare?
From a medical marijuana perspective it wouldn’t change much for states where it is still illegal. It will make things easier for people who are prescribed it in states where it is legal, and hopefully for places that produce or sell marijuana that are currently locked out of banking and payment systems. This would also allow Medicare to at least consider covering it in those states, but they wouldn’t necessarily have to. Medicare coverage decisions are made by the center for Medicare and Medicaid services, we’ll have to see after this change goes through what they determine. They do also already cover FDA approved medications based on cannibinoid ingredients like marinol or epidiolex which are pharmaceutical preparations of delta 9 thc and cannibidiol respectively (these are already available in every state since they are fda approved). Private insurance also will make their own determinations about whether they will cover it or not, but with this change there is a chance they could, whereas before there was no possible way. Medicaid coverage is mostly determined by each individual state.
The only way this would over ride state law and allow medical marijuana into a state that doesn’t have legal marijuana would be if somehow the marijuana plant itself got an FDA approval, but that is very unlikely for a lot of reasons, foremost that the marijuana plant has a large mix of many different drugs with many differences in amounts and ratios of those drugs from strain to strain, plant to plant, different parts of the plant, or even the same plant at different times in its life. It’s not like, heroin, or fentanyl, or cocaine which are specific chemicals. You could never really say “marijuana plants in general” have a specific indication for a specific disease, it would need to be much more specific in terms of what is actually being given, and only that would have the evidence and therefore the FDA approval. Like take epidiolex/cannibidiol for instance, a single chemical, 25 mg/kg/day was found effective as an add on therapy to another primary therapy for reduction in seizure frequency in children with Lennox gestaut syndrome and dravet syndrome. That’s the specific indication and dosage that the FDA agrees is effective based on the evidence. Lots of other reasons too you’d never see an FDA approval for “all marijuana plants in general,” but the unpredictable mix of tons of different drugs across many many strains of marijuana plants and variability between the plants itself is enough to make this a practical impossibility. It’s definitely contributed a few medications that have roles in certain diseases though, like many other plants before it.
In short, you’ll still need to convince individual states to legalize it or make medical marijuana laws if you want an actual marijuana plant or plant preparation prescribed to you. Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance coverage could all be different (and even different by insurance company), but there’s at least a chance it could give coverage now, whereas it was impossible before. This also makes marijuana research easier and helps reduce any federal criminal penalties.
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That doesn’t answer any of my questions.
Ketamine is used by doctors and vets. So it is heavily regulated but can be used legally by people allowed to prescribe/use it.
Ketamine is a tranquilizer… so for official use nothing recreational.
Low dose therapeutic ketamine is apparently used in some cases of depression and trauma therapy as wel
Yeah, some excellent trials going on.
Usually that’s the highly related compound called esketamine, which is stronger and is administered in smaller doses nasally and has fewer side effects. Sold under the brand name Spravato. The commercials for it have some things listed as side effects I don’t think I’d seen in a drug commercial before: “can cause … feeling disconnected from yourself, your thoughts, space and time”
Thank you for at least trying to answer my question. I appreciate it.
No problem bud! Hope this either gives you enough to move on by either reading further or skipping to the next article.
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Perhaps if you didn’t just think about yourself and your perspective you might see that the other person asking a question and someone answering it will be useful if and when other people just web searches and append lemmy like we used to Reddit.
We can all search anything at any time, but sometimes it nice to have the input of others and contribute to discussions for others to find later.
“Something something plants trees…”
Critics point out that as a Schedule III drug, marijuana would remain regulated by the DEA. That means the roughly 15,000 cannabis dispensaries in the U.S. would have to register with the DEA like regular pharmacies and fulfill strict reporting requirements, something that they are loath to do and that the DEA is ill equipped to handle.
Aren’t these dispensaries currently registered with the DEA? Why would lowering it on the schedule change that?
I think currently they’re not. They’re registered to their state as they’re still technically illegal at the federal level. The DEA has taken kind of a don’t ask don’t tell approach to marijuana and is currently relying on a patchwork of state regulations to manage it because for a variety of (terrible) reasons they haven’t taken the sane step of reclassifying it. It honestly shouldn’t be a scheduled drug or at worst a schedule 4. Moving it from schedule 1 to 3 is better than nothing, but it’s still a chicken shit maneuver.
Devil’s advocate here…
I’m pretty sure the DEA has a ton of funding directly tied to Marijuana enforcement, they can’t just deschedule it entirely without losing that funding immediately. Those funding requirements need to be reclassified for other uses.
They are registered to the various states programs, but I can’t imagine there is a way to register with the DEA to sell a Schedule 1 drug for recreational use.
As someone unfamiliar with the law my guess would be that the DEA doesn’t have mechanisms in place to register distributors of schedule 1 substances, since it doesn’t recognize them as having any legitimate use.
Nah. As a schedule I, it’s in the same category as things like meth. Tito your corner drug dealer ain’t telling the feds where he’s selling, right?
Meth is schedule 2. Which highlights how absurd cannabis being schedule 1 for so long was.
My bad! I just assumed.
Schedule I is reserved for only the most vile drugs, like LSD!
And crack… But not powder cocaine.
I’m sure that has NOTHING to do with the types of people who tend to use one or the other.
I mean, cocaine hydrochloride (aka powder cocaine) does have medical uses. No, seriously. In the form of a nasal spray before certain kinds of nasal surgeries as a local anesthetic. According to my wife it also opens your sinuses like nothing else, as she’s had a couple of such surgeries.
There is some evidence suggesting there’s a higher risk for abuse and dependence when cocaine is injected or smoked as opposed to intranasal use, but the research there is kinda limited. While the racial angle is certainly relevant, that there is no accepted medical use for cocaine base (aka crack) but there is for cocaine hydrochloride probably also plays a part in why crack is in the “no medical uses” schedule and cocaine hydrochloride is in the same schedule as fentanyl (you know, the one for highly abusable drugs that do have accepted medical applications). The laws calling out crack specifically as opposed to merely referencing the drug schedules are all about race though.
It also means regular pharmacies can sell it, and via normal banking channels.
Cops will just latch onto something else even harder
Like skin color?
I was thinking more meth and/or heroin but hey
If it’s like oxy and primarily affects white folks, they won’t do shit.
Also cops can’t get away with saying “I smelled heroin” as an excuse to terrorize minorities in a traffic stop like they historically did with grass.
Methamphetamine (Desoxyn) and heroin (Diacetylmorphine) are scheduled II drugs. I don’t think they will at least to the same level as Marijuana since it was previously classified as scheduled I (no medical use)
What does that mean for…my friend…that has to renew their security clearance?
Probably nothing immediately. The biggest advantages of rescheduling are in regard to federal sentencing guidelines and, imo more importantly, federal funding for research. Schedule 1 drugs (which MJ is currently) are defined as having no medical value, so research funding is practically impossible.
10 days too late
Why?
4/20 joke
Your username is fucking incredible.
Jimmy eats AU sage… Mmmm golden sage
Jim - my! (eats a us age)
Or Australian.
Abolish the DEA
And move the goalposts.
