No you; the argument was never that Taiwan is independent, even our government has never acknowledged that; only utter imbeciles ever thought that was the case.
The KMT doesn’t represent Taiwan. Tsai, obviously the former president, has already said that Taiwan is already independent and doesn’t need to “declare independence”. China’s position is 100% LARP. Their claim is that they already own Taiwan, which makes no sense at all.
There are basically ZERO pundits anywhere that know the history of Taiwan. They either parrot same NAFO-type propaganda or CPC propaganda – which is basically that Taiwan is an “inalienable part of China”, which is simply historically false. Throughout most of Chinese history none of the leaders gave two shits about the island of Taiwan until it became part of an important trade route. THEN the Qing dynasty started to administer very very small parts of it. They were later forced to give up their rule on those parts of Taiwan to imperial Japan for many reasons (yes, imperial Japan is bad). Afterwards, there still wasn’t much of a concern for taking Taiwan, either from the CPC nor the KMT. It only started happening after KMT lost their war and started claiming Taiwan was theirs and planning their escape plan. Shortly afterwards, the CPC said Taiwan was there’s as well.
In the bigger picture, aboriginal Taiwanese have arrived at Taiwan in various periods, starting around 6000 years ago. The vast majority of “Chinese” that came to Taiwan came starting around the 1600’s due to the Dutch East Indian company encouraging immigration from China and later on the Qing dynasty encouraged immigration as well (1800’s). CPC propaganda makes it seem like “Chinese” presence in Taiwan all came from the KMT fleeing to Taiwan or something. The KMT and all of their descendants only make up less than ONE FIFTH of the population of Taiwan.
Anyway I skipped over a lot of history including Dutch atrocities in Taiwan, a Ming loyalist dispelling the Dutch, and the Spanish colonization of (small parts) of Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Formosa
Taiwanese identity is also very important and unlike what the CPC says, it’s not about being “anti-Chinese” or “not Chinese”, which makes no sense.
Also, what does being loyal to “China” actually mean? The Ming dynasty had conflicts with the Qing dynasty, which one was more Chinese? Is the CPC responsible for everything bad previous dynasties did? Should the CPC take responsibility for KMT atrocities?? If no, why not? Do they own all the land that previous dynasties have owned? Does the CPC own all land that Chinese people live on? (Chinese nationalists actually use the ethnostate argument as a reason as to why the CPC should own Taiwan).
It would be awesome if Taiwan were rid of the dominance of the Han Chinese and recognized as an aboriginal nation-state led predominantly by the aboriginals. Unfortunately, just like the KMT, the West would ensure that such a state would be part of the fascist empire and used against China regardless of the will of the aboriginal peoples. Maybe someday Taiwan can be decolonized, but not until the European empire ends. Decolonization before that will end up like decolonization of Africa did - with European capture, counter-revolution, and the building of imperial military extensions.
Is the US among it? And why are they choosing to arm Taiwan instead? Do you think the US would be chill if another country decided to arm Hawaii,Puerto Rico, Alaska,… ?
FYI the weapons are basically shit (there’s agreement among Taiwanese and Chinese nationalists) and can’t be used for force projection at all. In Taiwan purchasing of these arms is considered paying protection money to the mafia. In the US it’s spun as helping Taiwan protect itself against China. In China it’s spun as the US interfering with China’s “internal affairs” since they’re larping as owning Taiwan.
I do agree that the US is trying to bait China into attacking Taiwan though. The special forces in Kinmen to train kids (they’re probably <23 years old) to pilot microdrones? LMAO. I’m not sure if CIA intelligence (as opposed to operations) even know the actual reason of why China wants to claim Taiwan. They may believe in their own propaganda.
The KMT doesn’t represent Taiwan. The CPC should have finished them off/sent them to jail. Mao was for Taiwanese independene from it’s Japanese colonizers.
So the southern US is its own independent country right? The losing side of civil wars gets to keep “their” land? (Actually this is being too charitable to Taiwan, they actually invaded land and called it theirs)
Unless you suggest that KMT is a nationality or ethnicity, 95-97% of Taiwan population is Han Chinese (mostly Hoklo and Hakka), and barely 2% are indigenous.
I mean yes, nationalists will be nationalists. I can also find a ton of confederates in the south of the US, flying the flag and everything. Here’s hoping she doesn’t have the same views on ethnicity as most nationalists do 😬
You can just not respond lol. I knew you weren’t going to have anything worthwhile to say, but instead of turning tail and walking away like liberals usually do, you gotta waste time with reddit-tier turbo nerd responses. I just know you are familiar with the inside of a locker.
Dutifully reciting DoD memos verbatim and then calling me a bootlicker lol
You will never understand why every US president since the Chinese civil war has said Taiwan is not a separate country? You will never understand why every year more nations drop the historical alignment with the former fascist dictatorship of the civil war’s losers to the current internationally recognized government of China? You will never understand something that has been understood for literally 70 years?
It doesn’t matter what the people outside China think. The people inside China - on both sides of the Taiwan strait - think Taiwan is part of China. They all call themselves Chinese except the tiny minority that speak with American accents. There are indigenous ethnic minorities on Taiwan whose ancestors were not part of China, but they didn’t call themselves ‘Taiwan’ because that’s a Chinese word.
Don’t say that in Taiwan. You might get into trouble.
Taiwan, or rather The Republic of China, claims to be the legitimate China. This includes all of the mainland. The losers of China’s civil war fled to Taiwan, but their claim to all of China continues.
just fyi, I live in Taiwan, and people never get into trouble for saying that. don’t lecture me on how to behave in my homeland. now I know you didn’t know I lived here, but just maybe, maybe you should refrain from saying stuff you don’t know well enough about
Why would China invade itself?
Fuck off
Taiwan is independent and will always stay that way
No you; the argument was never that Taiwan is independent, even our government has never acknowledged that; only utter imbeciles ever thought that was the case.
The KMT doesn’t represent Taiwan. Tsai, obviously the former president, has already said that Taiwan is already independent and doesn’t need to “declare independence”. China’s position is 100% LARP. Their claim is that they already own Taiwan, which makes no sense at all.
There are basically ZERO pundits anywhere that know the history of Taiwan. They either parrot same NAFO-type propaganda or CPC propaganda – which is basically that Taiwan is an “inalienable part of China”, which is simply historically false. Throughout most of Chinese history none of the leaders gave two shits about the island of Taiwan until it became part of an important trade route. THEN the Qing dynasty started to administer very very small parts of it. They were later forced to give up their rule on those parts of Taiwan to imperial Japan for many reasons (yes, imperial Japan is bad). Afterwards, there still wasn’t much of a concern for taking Taiwan, either from the CPC nor the KMT. It only started happening after KMT lost their war and started claiming Taiwan was theirs and planning their escape plan. Shortly afterwards, the CPC said Taiwan was there’s as well.
In the bigger picture, aboriginal Taiwanese have arrived at Taiwan in various periods, starting around 6000 years ago. The vast majority of “Chinese” that came to Taiwan came starting around the 1600’s due to the Dutch East Indian company encouraging immigration from China and later on the Qing dynasty encouraged immigration as well (1800’s). CPC propaganda makes it seem like “Chinese” presence in Taiwan all came from the KMT fleeing to Taiwan or something. The KMT and all of their descendants only make up less than ONE FIFTH of the population of Taiwan.
Anyway I skipped over a lot of history including Dutch atrocities in Taiwan, a Ming loyalist dispelling the Dutch, and the Spanish colonization of (small parts) of Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Formosa
Taiwanese identity is also very important and unlike what the CPC says, it’s not about being “anti-Chinese” or “not Chinese”, which makes no sense.
Also, what does being loyal to “China” actually mean? The Ming dynasty had conflicts with the Qing dynasty, which one was more Chinese? Is the CPC responsible for everything bad previous dynasties did? Should the CPC take responsibility for KMT atrocities?? If no, why not? Do they own all the land that previous dynasties have owned? Does the CPC own all land that Chinese people live on? (Chinese nationalists actually use the ethnostate argument as a reason as to why the CPC should own Taiwan).
It would be awesome if Taiwan were rid of the dominance of the Han Chinese and recognized as an aboriginal nation-state led predominantly by the aboriginals. Unfortunately, just like the KMT, the West would ensure that such a state would be part of the fascist empire and used against China regardless of the will of the aboriginal peoples. Maybe someday Taiwan can be decolonized, but not until the European empire ends. Decolonization before that will end up like decolonization of Africa did - with European capture, counter-revolution, and the building of imperial military extensions.
Sure
Taiwan is China, even the separatist regime in Taipei agrees on that.
Bro, you literally called them separatists lol
How many countries recognize Taiwan again?
Why would it need to be more than one?
And it’s 12, counting the Vatican.
Is the US among it? And why are they choosing to arm Taiwan instead? Do you think the US would be chill if another country decided to arm Hawaii,Puerto Rico, Alaska,… ?
FYI the weapons are basically shit (there’s agreement among Taiwanese and Chinese nationalists) and can’t be used for force projection at all. In Taiwan purchasing of these arms is considered paying protection money to the mafia. In the US it’s spun as helping Taiwan protect itself against China. In China it’s spun as the US interfering with China’s “internal affairs” since they’re larping as owning Taiwan.
I do agree that the US is trying to bait China into attacking Taiwan though. The special forces in Kinmen to train kids (they’re probably <23 years old) to pilot microdrones? LMAO. I’m not sure if CIA intelligence (as opposed to operations) even know the actual reason of why China wants to claim Taiwan. They may believe in their own propaganda.
The KMT doesn’t represent Taiwan. The CPC should have finished them off/sent them to jail. Mao was for Taiwanese independene from it’s Japanese colonizers.
Wait let me quickly turn to the left and ask my taiwanese coworker
She says your full of shit and should go back to licking boots in silence
That’s weird that she has the same exact response to both the comments you asked her about. This story feels very real and true.
Ask “her” if “she” has any rebuttal to the actual things being said.
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Nope
So the southern US is its own independent country right? The losing side of civil wars gets to keep “their” land? (Actually this is being too charitable to Taiwan, they actually invaded land and called it theirs)
The KMT and CPC are both from China. The vast vast majority of Taiwanese are not KMT from China nor any of their descendants.
Unless you suggest that KMT is a nationality or ethnicity, 95-97% of Taiwan population is Han Chinese (mostly Hoklo and Hakka), and barely 2% are indigenous.
I mean yes, nationalists will be nationalists. I can also find a ton of confederates in the south of the US, flying the flag and everything. Here’s hoping she doesn’t have the same views on ethnicity as most nationalists do 😬
Removed by mod
You can just not respond lol. I knew you weren’t going to have anything worthwhile to say, but instead of turning tail and walking away like liberals usually do, you gotta waste time with reddit-tier turbo nerd responses. I just know you are familiar with the inside of a locker.
Dutifully reciting DoD memos verbatim and then calling me a bootlicker lol
And I hope you don’t actually lick as much taiwanese nationalist boot in real live as online
That can’t be healthy
I can assure you
I don’t
Do you support the Confederates?
Taiwan is its own country. I will never understand why some people outside China insist that Taiwan is a part of China.
You will never understand why every US president since the Chinese civil war has said Taiwan is not a separate country? You will never understand why every year more nations drop the historical alignment with the former fascist dictatorship of the civil war’s losers to the current internationally recognized government of China? You will never understand something that has been understood for literally 70 years?
Sounds like a skill issue.
It doesn’t matter what the people outside China think. The people inside China - on both sides of the Taiwan strait - think Taiwan is part of China. They all call themselves Chinese except the tiny minority that speak with American accents. There are indigenous ethnic minorities on Taiwan whose ancestors were not part of China, but they didn’t call themselves ‘Taiwan’ because that’s a Chinese word.
And people in the Netherlands call themselves Dutch…
You think it’s absurd that some people think the Republic Of China is part of China?
I get that names aren’t everything, but it reflects both the recent history and the de jure policies of the ROC, PRC, UN and USA.
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Don’t say that in Taiwan. You might get into trouble.
Taiwan, or rather The Republic of China, claims to be the legitimate China. This includes all of the mainland. The losers of China’s civil war fled to Taiwan, but their claim to all of China continues.
just fyi, I live in Taiwan, and people never get into trouble for saying that. don’t lecture me on how to behave in my homeland. now I know you didn’t know I lived here, but just maybe, maybe you should refrain from saying stuff you don’t know well enough about
didnt this literally happen to tens of thousands of people during the white terror or am I tripping
that was decades ago. it never happens nowadays
turns out if you just kill everyone who mentions it no one is left to complain about it, interesting