Imagine a conman rips you off a dozen times. It’s always the same scheme, too. The same conman comes to you again with the same scheme and says “but this is a legitimate business proposition!”
Even if you do your due diligence (which you did all those other times, right?) and it looks above board, you have to realize that trusting him yet again makes you a fucking rube.
I have found that liberals really, really, hate being exposed as equals to republicans.
Because the divide is about aesthetics. They want to be seen as hip. They are cultural parasites who suck any radicalism out of any movement and turn it into twitter slogans.
“I just want my free healthcare and I don’t care how many foreigners and poor people have to die for it.”
Democrats: how about we give you a market exchange and subsidise insurance companies while still doing the killing?
Sorry sweetie, best I can do is partial cancelation of medical debt for Pell Grant recipients who start and operate a business in a disadvantaged neighborhood for at least two years.
I hope I don’t get castrated for this by everyone here but I’m genuinely curious so I’m going to ask. For coxtext, I’m a dirty commie retard hippie dick suckin left wing lib (not a meme, I am literally a Liberal Democrat). Now that that’s out of the way, I’d like to ask someone who disagrees with me why they think that supporting Ukraine is a bad move? The way I see it, the longer this war goes on, the weaker Russia gets. Sure it’s costing the US (and other countries) a lot of money and resources but we are essentially weakining a not-so-friendly country of ours without having to send our own troops to fight it. Why is this a bad thing? Should I not care if Russia gets more powerful than it already is? Am I retarded?
The way I see it, the longer this war goes on, the weaker Russia gets
you are cheering for throwing real human people into the meat grinder because it will cause negligible wear on the meat grinder’s parts. Isn’t that absolutely horrible? Ukraine sucks, Russia sucks, nothing comes of war between them but suffering for the innocent people who have absolutely no agency in the matterI’m a dirty commie
I am literally a Liberal Democrat
wow this place sucks now
Death to America
The way I see it, the longer this war goes on, the weaker Russia gets.
Why is the weakening of one of the few countries willing and able to challenge American unipolar hegemony a good thing from your perspective?
Well, it’s a good thing from my perspective because I’m an American, I want my country to be powerful.
a stronger u.s. means more death squads, more right-wing coups, more death. it means no leftist movements worldwide will be allowed to gain any meaningful ground. as a citizen of the u.s. i hope every day for its collapse
I want my country to be powerful
It’s not your country though, the state there is not subordinated to the social class you belong to. No matter how much you cheer on the bourgeoisie they will not stop being your class enemy.
we got a live one bears!
The Americans here don’t want their country to be powerful because they are leftists (actual leftists, not Democrats) and recognize that the US has been destroying leftist movements across the globe, including in their own country, for a century or even longer. Hope this helps.
^ This is why I don’t hate on MTWists and fans of Settlers
Third worldists of any tendency are always correct.
How do you feel about the iraq war?
Snark free answer:
We believe that the expansion of the American empire is one of the greatest threats facing the world today. The strength and reach of America far surpasses anything that Russia could ever hope to achieve. Russia is only a fraction of the political and economic power of America.
We don’t like Russia. It is a neoliberal and reactionary state (like Ukraine). But we do not accept the idea that blood should be shed to weaken an “unfriendly” (read: designated target) state in service of maintaining American supremecy in the area via NATO.
Tldr; why is the US supporting Ukraine a bad move? Because it supports US global supremacy.
Snark:
Liberal Democrat
I appreciate the answer, if you don’t mind me asking, are you American? If so, it just seems strange to me that you don’t want your own country to be a strong political and economic power. If you’re not an American, then that’s an understandable opinion to have. It’s possible I’m misunderstanding the theme of this instance.
And also:
Tldr; why is the US supporting Ukraine a bad move? Because it supports US global supremacy.
I disagree with this because it isn’t only the US that is aiding Ukraine, it’s NATO.
I appreciate the answer, if you don’t mind me asking, are you American? If so, it just seems strange to me that you don’t want your own country to be a strong political and economic power.
I’m an American and I don’t want my county to be a strong geopolitical power. It’s only the rich who gain any benefit from that, and they are engaged in class war against us, so the stronger they get the more they can hurt us. Instead of (the upper class of) my nation getting stronger, I want my class to become stronger. The interests of the working people of all nations are aligned against the common foe of the rich and powerful, and the richest and most powerful people in the world benefit from America getting stronger - not us.
Our politicians are wasting money that could be spent on schools, infrastructure, healthcare, or any number of things, on pointless weapons and slaughter because it allows them to line their own pockets through the military industrial complex. How on earth does the average American benefit from that?
Bruv I’ve never had armed Chinese soldiers occupy my city to crush a pro-democracy movement, but I have starred down the barrel of US army M4s in Minneapolis.
America is NATO. Go look at the relative spending per member.
you don’t want your own country to be a strong political and economic power.
If the influence of my country is a detriment to the healthy development and peoples of other countries then yes it absolutely is fine to not wish my country to be ‘strong’ in the sense you’ve defined.
it isn’t only the US that is aiding Ukraine, it’s NATO.
I am American. I know you called yourself a commie jokingly, but I, and most people on Hexbear, am a principled communist.
We don’t view the world through the lens of patriotism or defending “our” nation. The working class of America is also oppressed and exploited by the capitalist class of America. The exploitation is amplified when it is turned towards non-American states, especially those in the periphery. While we as Americans benefit from the exploitation of the periphery nations, we (the working class) have more in common with the working class of other countries than we do with our exploiters. Through this lens, we do not seek for our country to be “stronger” (read: globally militarily dominant). We want our country to be liberated from capitalist oppression, and we want other countries under our grip to be liberated, too.
I take your point about the US not acting alone because NATO countries are participating. I think if you look into the history and structure of NATO, you would find that the US has an outsized influence within NATO, and that most people who subscribe to realpolitik recognize that NATO is largely an arm of the US military. This is because of the global presence of the US military all over the world. Many of these countries depend on the US for defense, and the US can leverage its military strength to pressure the host countries into all kinds of policies. Look up a map of US military bases to get a real picture of the influence the US has over the NATO countries. If you really wanna make a comparison, then look at the number of foreign military bases held by the US vs. the number held by Russia or China. It’s a staggering difference.
You can just say youre a liberal. We’re literally communists (and socialists and anarcists of various tendencies). You arent left wing. You support capitalism and the US. You support the US hegemonic global order, and its imperial exploitation of periphery nations.
We don’t because we are actually communists. We support the global working class against the global ruling class. We stand against the US hegemonic order whether we are American or not, because we have an internationalist perspective.
And Russia is not being made weaker. The US shorterm gains have mostly been against their European vassals who have been made weaker as a result of this conflict. The US saw them getting more independent by having ties to the Russian Federation and buying they’re oil. The US was able to shut that down and poach companies from investing in Europe to move invesrment to the US instead due to the energy crisis.
1st. we would only castrate you if you wanted free SRS for gender affirming care
2nd. we are all liberals here (this is a joke, we’re commies, anarchists, and socialists)
3rd. i support the civilians of donbas and the surrounding area, who were bombed after America couped the geopolitically neutral government of Ukraine in favor of an anti-Russia government. being geopolitically neutral was a very obviously good take for the whole country, now their economy is in shambles and the average person on both sides in donbas are having a terrible time. ukraine is unlikely to recover to or go beyond its pre-1991 economy at this rate.
for context, im a czech communist and believe slavic countries should at minimum have a freedom of movement agreement, though preferably i think we should be one country, we have so many tiny countries that are prone to being bullied, couped, and imperialized by foreign powers such as america. we all speak relatively similar languages, its very easy to learn enough of another slavic language to be able to have a shared vocabulary with anyone
deleted by creator
Don’t use the R-word ever again, if that’s what that last word you tried to post was.
The way I see it, the longer this war goes on, the weaker Russia gets.
The way you see it is filtered through 30 layers of western media whose interests are presenting Russia as both weak and about to collapse (for almost a year) but still strong enough that if it wasnt for NATO they would steamroll all of Europe.
In reality while economically Russia might not be doing that good (mostly thanks to the neoliberal ghouls in the central bank), militarily they are really not giving their all in the Ukraine conflict, i dont even think they are halfassing things. This is presented as weakness in western media.
I’d like to ask someone who disagrees with me why they think that supporting Ukraine is a bad move?
I don’t think the Ukrainian state as it is is worth supporting. It’s not this bastion of democracy and freedom the western media pretends it is, it’s a shitty corrupt oligarchy same as Russia.
The way I see it, the longer this war goes on, the weaker Russia gets.
I don’t care about Russia getting weaker at all tbh. I’d much rather see the west greatly weakened than Russia as they are the bigger threat to world peace and prosperity.
The reason I’m against the west helping Ukraine is they’re clearly not helping them win the war, just prolong it. I’d much rather the war end right now with Russia (probably) getting the bigger piece of the cake as it stops the meat grinder on both sides. It’s not because I give a shit about Russia winning, it’s about stopping the killing. I don’t believe people living in the war-torn area would be much better off under Russia or Ukraine as both states suck shit anyway, so stopping the killing is the best they’re gonna get for the time being.
I want you to look at the words “supporting Ukraine” then look at the rest of the paragraph you said after it. Especially the “why is this a bad thing?” part. Compare that question to the rest of what you just said. Really consider the words you typed.
Now tell me if that actually sounds like you “support Ukraine” at all, or if you’ve just fallen for the same Jingoistic propaganda the US uses to justify all its wars and foreign intervention. Dead Ukrainians are not supported Ukranians. If you actually support Ukraine, you should push for peace, not more weapons to be sold to their government.
That’s actually a fair point. To be totally honest, for me personally, I’m not exactly for Ukraine as much as I’m against Russia, if that makes sense. However, I do recognize that Ukraine got unfairly invaded by another country, and they should defend themselves.
If you actually support Ukraine, you should push for peace, not more weapons to be sold to their government.
I want peace, but not if that means Russia takes Ukraine against their will by force.
Others in the thread have helpfully outlined Russia’s goals for this conflict, but it is important to note that this didn’t come out of nowhere one day (even if that is how the western press tries to present it.) This has been escalating since the coup in Ukraine in 2013, Russia has repeatedly tried to be diplomatic, and has had their concerns dismissed. Hell, Russia doesn’t even want to be antagonistic towards NATO if they don’t have to be (they even tried to join them in the early 2000s).
As others have said, we don’t support Russia, we aren’t Russian nationalists. We do however, want to try to understand a conflict and why it happens, and if there was any way to prevent it from happening so we can make sure similar conflicts don’t happen in the future.
The problem with the western media (US media in particular) is that it tends to just point to another nation and just call them bad guys, like the villain in a movie. This doesn’t analyse anything or provide any preventative power (in fact, for the US, it is usually the opposite, they want wars so they can keep their military industrial complex ticking over and making profit off of death and destruction.)
If people uncritically accept that an “enemy nation” is a bad guy, they can easily fall for the next bad guy, and the next, and so on forever. The only way to actually prevent stuff like this is to try and understand why it happens.
To be totally honest, for me personally, I’m not exactly for Ukraine as much as I’m against Russia
If nothing else, your honesty is refreshing lol
Seriously, this is still about 2016 and that Russiagate bullshit for these people
Russia invaded their country with a military with the intent of taking land. What would peace look like?
Ah, silly me, I forgot, history began in Febuary 2022. War is peace, we can’t negotiate with the enemy. We just need to keep selling weapons for profit, I’m sure there’s no issue with that. Not like a country profiting off this conflict would encourage their citizens to think that Russia is a nation of mindless demonspawn who only understand violence. Just got to keep selling ineffectual and very profitable weapons and fight Russia down to every last man, woman and child in Ukraine. That’ll help the Ukrainian people! Much better than trying for that silly peace nonsense. After all, Russia did a bad guy thing. So we can’t talk, or discuss terms or try to understand them or their motivations. They the bad guys. It’s not like Ukrainian’s lives matter anyway, as the average smug American, I can’t even point to it on the map! And there’s plenty more people to die for our profits when those guys are all gone!
Russia did do a bad guy thing. Ukraine doesn’t want to let them have their land. If Russia was interested in peace, maybe they should have started with it and not attacked a neighboring nation.
They did start with it. Does “Minsk II” mean anything to you?
No it didnt. it did a goood guy thing. it did a Humanitarian Intervention to Prevent the Kiev Regime from Slaugherting their national Minority in the Donbass ( think Kosovo War) after Kiew Refused the Misnk 2 agreement. Your Just Extremly wrong infromed That you are wrong informed is not you Fault ,It is in the US interest to paint cartoon cersion of its Enemies that Bootlickers then repeat … that you refuse to inform yourself and run with the stupid cartoon version told to you by the must non Trustworthy party imaginable is your Fault ,… please grow out of it… Your might really be wrong informed …
Wanna check if , this is offical OSCE Report ? Can you see the Reasons for Russias Intervention ?they are Marked there on the Map …
PS. Propaganda mostly happens to smug people that think it happens to everybody but them … Never them, they consume Mainstream Media when the Topic is Foreign Policy and consider themself of Elite Knowlede…
faschist beeing prevented from killing their hated minority. this is what peace will look like ,
sorry but the Slaughter of the Donbass will be stopped . And if every last “ukrainian victim” ,will be Married to the Donbass soil by their Cruel High Priest Zelensky , then so be it… Theres A Material way to Peace (Peace thee day after the Last Ukrainian died ) and a Interlectuall way to peace ( 3th Try ! ) … Both work , the one you Support will Kill way more then the “Kosovo” Way ,that we support… its also Inhumane and cruel…
Peace looks like guaranteeing Ukrainian neutrality by taking NATO membership off the table and likely ceding the DPR and LPR to the Russian federation at this point.
At this point if Ukraine gained back the DPR it would almost certainly result in an ethnic cleansing.
So Russia gets to attack a sovereign nation and demand their land and peace looks like just giving it to them along with making sure the country they attacked is open to future attacks? How is that in any way a justified peace solution? What prevents Russia from doing it again?
yes.And what prevents them from doing it again is that they would have a buffer against NATO aggression, but you probably think NATO is a benevolent peace loving organization instead of a band of butchers and war criminals hell bent on subjugating the entire planet even if it kills every human being on earth.
The war didn’t start with the Russian invasion, Ukrainian paramilitaries have used internationally banned cluster munitions in the donbass since 2014. Ukraine could have ensured peace and retained all of its territory by guaranteeing a ceasefire and self-determination for the eastern regions, but they did not.
NATO could have ensured peace by dissolving after the USSR was destroyed, or at least not continuing to expand east as they promised, but they did not.
This invasion is happening in the 11th hour after the total failure of diplomacy at every level. The territory Ukraine would hypothetically be losing by pursuing peace has been contested for a long time.
How far do you want to go? Absolute peace would be the end of the nation-state and the use of violence to uphold class society. That’s an useless idea for this, though. Maybe a more useful goal for peace is stopping the encirclement, sanctioning, and blockading of all countries. Or not conducting coups to install puppet governments right next to geopolitical enemies. Or at the very least accepting diplomatic solutions to a war when they arise instead of slipping your proxy another check and sending a couple thousand more people to get killed.
In short, we’re a long way out from peace, but NATO’s actions have arguably put the world in more peril and violence than even Russia’s. Even if that weren’t the case, unless you’re Russian yourself, you probably have a lot more you can do to pressure the NATO countries to stop fighting to the last Ukrainian, rather than somehow pray Putin into surrendering.
Why can’t Putin stop attacking Ukraine? Why is it on everyone else to stop when Russia is clearly the aggressor here? The war would be over in a flash of Putin simply decided to stop attacking.
Because NATO will use Ukraine as a base from which to destabilize, balkanize, and destroy the rf. That’s the answer. Until Ukraine is forced to accept Neutrality and NATO is forced out of Ukraine Russia won’t have a defense against NATO aggression.
The way I see it, the longer this war goes on, the weaker Russia gets. Sure it’s costing the US (and other countries) a lot of money and resources but we are essentially weakining a not-so-friendly country of ours without having to send our own troops to fight it.
I’m really skeptical of the “we’re grinding Russia down with this!” narrative because the USSR had been cranking out war materiel to compete with the USA for literal decades; the RF has been working around Western sanctions for years and IIRC have been really focused recently on economic self-sufficiency in a few spheres.
They’re also the country with the most tanks in their fleet (total, not necessarily deployed), and they have air superiority, which Ukraine can’t really challenge.
Honestly it looks like Ukraine will lose, but not before defense contractors get to sign contracts worth billions of dollars replenishing the West’s armories.
Also by itself Ukraine’s government isn’t worth supporting, they’ve rolled back labor rights, allow the existence of fascist military units (Azov Battalion is part of Ukraine’s version of a Gendarmerie - a military unit that polices civilians), and they’re corrupt as fuck, they’re privatizing aggressively during wartime.
without having to send our own troops to fight it
Ukrainian troops and Ukrainian people are dying though, and they’re still human - for what? A couple of breakaway regions that have been fighting the government of Ukraine since 2014.
So if January 6th traitors were being aided with weapons from Russia we should have laid down and let them win to preserve lives?
ukraine had its jan 6th incident in 2014, the current war is a result of the coupists succeeding and the eastern part of the country not lying down and letting them win to preserve lives
What if the world was made of pudding
A good comparison might be “what if Maine really wanted to be independent, or maybe even join Canada?”
Would it make sense to:
- Give American neo-Nazi paramilitaries free reign to attack Maine
- Seek an alliance with a group of nations expressly designed to fight a war with Canada
- Get into a bloody stalemate of a war with Canada if they invade on behalf of the people of Maine, who don’t want to be here anyway
- Keep fighting that war long after the point it becomes apparent that we will not be retaking Maine
A better solution would have been to negotiate with Maine separatists, perhaps addressing the reason they want to leave, and at bare minimum act like a sovereign state with a monopoly on legitimate violence and destroy the neo-Nazi paramilitaries in your own house. Might also help to avoid the “fuck Canada” military alliance, too.
The way I see it, the longer this war goes on, the weaker Russia gets.
We support the concept of multipolarity. We believe that that the US/NATO being the sole, dominant world hegemon is a bad thing. One big reason why we think that is because developing countries have suffered greatly under the neocolonialist policies of the World Bank and IMF, but they’ve been forced to accept whatever deal they’re offered in order to have the market access needed to survive. In a multipolar world, these countries would have more options, and would have more ability to play major powers against each other.
We also oppose capitalism. Both the US and Russia are capitalist countries, so we oppose both of them, but we consider the US to be the higher priority, because it is more powerful. We do not believe that the interests advanced by the US government and bourgeoisie are consistent with the interests of the American people.
Sure it’s costing the US (and other countries) a lot of money and resources but we are essentially weakining a not-so-friendly country of ours without having to send our own troops to fight it.
The lives of Americans are not worth more than the lives of Ukrainians, or Russians for that matter. We want a swift end to the war, because, uhh, we value human life. Ukraine has been completely unwilling to negotiate or consider any territorial concessions, but realistically that’s likely to happen whether we keep throwing people into a meat grinder for the next 20 years or not.
So, you believe that Ukraine should just give up and allow Russia to take whatever they want?
Also, forgive me because I think I’m misunderstanding the theme of this instance. Isn’t this an instance for right-wing, conservative, Republican discussions, or is it something else?
Isn’t this an instance for Republican discussions?
Yes 😎 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_faction_(Spanish_Civil_War)
Yeah. Ukraine should give up and respect the autonomy of the Russian speaking Ukrainians who don’t want to be wiped out by Galacian Nazis.
“No-n-no, it’s different this time because—because—because—“
“In culture war crap, we tend to align! Yeah it’s for different reasons! I’m only for or against something because the people I hate decided it’s a new front!”
I swear they just do Ukraine support out of a culture war thing because 2016 elections, Russia and Trump.
… because this time the US is backing Ukraine against the aggressor, whereas in 2004 it was the aggressor?
so when Victoria Nuland picked Ukraine’s new government after instigating a coup and they killed ~16,000
civilianspeople in Donbas between 2014 and 2022 those were friendly, non-aggressive artillery shells?So you’re saying that Russia didn’t invade Ukraine first, before the separatist-controlled areas were shelled?
2014 is before 2022 hope that helps
Oh, so you’re saying that Russia illegally annexing Crimea in 2014 wasn’t an invasion of Ukraine?
You can always tell who the most ignorant libs are when they bring up Crimea lmao
Crimea is not Ukrainian, it has always been a distinct cultural ethnic region and 97% of Crimeans voting for independence from Kiev should give you pause before you breathlessly insist they should remain beholden to a bunch of nazi banderites
“Acktually sweaty, don’t you know that if a vote has a higher than 80% yes vote, it’s automatically a sham? Every vote needs to be really close or else it doesn’t count and isn’t real democracy. Consensus isn’t democratic!”
Crimeans wanting independence means they wanted to become part of the Russian empire again?
making it pretty obvious here that you have no idea who Victoria Nuland is and only started paying attention to any of this stuff in 2022
Oh, I’ve been following the whole thing for years and know who she is.
I just don’t think that her supporting pro-democratic and anti-corruption reform in Ukraine equates to it being okay for Russia to annex part of a neighbouring country.
Russia is the aggressor in this war, and it’s bad that they invaded.
Russia invaded Ukraine in response to continued US policy of bringing countries near Russia’s borders into NATO, a military treaty organization that Russia had tried to join but was barred from. Not acting would mean that Russia becomes increasingly encircled by military bases of a hostile superpower.
The Ukrainians are the victims in a proxy war between two much larger powers. For the average Ukrainian, sooner the war is over, the better. Somehow repelling the invasion would be ideal, but every day of fighting destroys lives and homes.
US policy in response to the invasion is to send military hardware to Ukraine, enriching its arms manufacturers and prolonging the conflict. They make the Ukrainian government pay for this by forcing the privatization of their government assets at bargain prices (note how this website exists and is fully translated to English). The actual fighting is still done by Ukrainians, who die for this.
New here. I was reading all the snarky strawman comments here and thinking “what the fuck are these people on?”. Then I read your comment, which is clearly and concisely written, and makes good points. I hadn’t thought of it that way and it makes a lot of sense. Not saying my view is totally flipped around, but that’s some food for thought and I’ll be snacking down.
Now will the rest of you calm down about owning libs and speak nicely to each other?
Hah, thanks.
When the war started, there were a lot of posts on here talking about the war in more nuance, and essays about Revolutionary Defeatism, Lenin’s take on this from World War 1.
But after over a year of arguing with blood-thirsty neoliberals who want to fight to the last Ukrainian, people are more tired and just want to yell.
Some additional food for thought (hopefully you aren’t full
):- November 2013: Duly-elected Ukranian president Viktor Yanukovych declines to sign the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, sparking significant protests.
- Dec 2013: John McCain tells Ukraine protesters: “We are here to support your just cause”
- Feb 2014: Yanukovych agrees to early elections and a withdrawal of police from the capitol; the opposition agreed to surrender arms and cease violence. None of this was implemented and Yanukovych flees the country.
- Mar 2014: In the midst of this turmoil, 97% of Crimean voters (83% turnout) vote to join the Russian Federation (staying with Ukraine was the other option on thr ballot). Crimea declares independence and is annexed by Russia shortly after. Despite the significant protests elsewhere in Ukraine, this is a peaceful process.
- Sep 2014: West must arm Ukraine to fight “invasion”: McCain
- 2014-15: Ukraine and Russia sign the Minsk agreements meant to stop the fighting between Ukraine and two other Russian-majority areas that want to leave Ukraine. These do not stop the fighting.
- Feb 2015: Ukrainian neo-Nazi paramilitaries declare any agreement with “pro-Russia terrorists” was “unconstitutional” and that his unit “reserves the right to continue active military operations” – essentially nullifying the Minsk agreements.
- Feb 2019: Before most Western media was interested in Ukraine, the reporting that was done described “neo-Nazi pogroms against the Roma, rampant attacks on feminists and LGBT groups, book bans, and state-sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.”
- Dec 2022: In an interview published in Germany’s Zeit magazine on Wednesday, former German chancellor Angela Merkel said that the Minsk agreements had been an attempt to “give Ukraine time” to build up its defences.
Given America’s long history of sponsoring coups around the globe, what are the chances the 2014 ouster of Yanukovych was organic? Had a prominent Russian politician visited DC on January 6th, 2021, and fired up the crowd against the government, what would your reaction have been? When you have neo-Nazis undermining the Minsk agreements from the start and Angela Merkel admitting they were not agreed to in good faith, what does that say about Russia’s diplomatic options? Is it possible that some parts of Ukraine really do want to leave?
Ты придурок.
и вы являетесь сторонником российского империализма
Hmm I wonder if anything interesting happened in Ukraine in for example 2014. Nothing in particular comes to mind.
You mean when Russia first invaded Ukraine?
Why did Clinton give so much money to Yeltsin in the 1990s? How were the modern nation states of Ukraine and Russia created, and how does their creation relate to amerikkka’s relentless focus on the destruction of the USSR?
“It’s different this time, we have to meddle with [foreign country], we have to fund highly reactionary forces there since they’re mysteriously the only ones who will work with us, this couldn’t possibly bite us in the ass in the future, just one more rightwing coup/proxy war bro I swear, just one more rightwing coup/proxy war, it’s the other side disrespecting human rights and democracy, it’s the other side doing imperialism and colonialism I swear bro, please, they’re just showing their agency bro—“
you mean when crimeans overwhelmingly voted to become part of Russia in a
democratic referendumrigged fake news sham election
Is that what CIA funded color revolutions are called these days?
Don’t forget that liberals clapped until Michael Moore started taking about Iraq
Liberals really like making people they dont like leave the place they live
But the top one is a conservative…
Another type of liberal
all of your landlords are liberals too
conservatives are liberals
Death to America
