And Congress knew and knows about others yet they think that they should still be the ones leading our representative government.
Why are these people living on the people ?
The GOP is full of rapists, and it’s nothing new.
How could he possibly not? How could people look at him and think he wouldn’t? The dude FUCKING looks like some sort of evil villain. That or a Dollar Tree Beavis.
I knew about this years ago. You knew about it. Our neighbors knew about. But still we gotta go through this wishy washy bullshit from those who are supposed to be leaders saying that this is all suddenly “coming to light”. Fuck no it isn’t.
So uh… why haven’t “we” like… convicted and jailed him?
Trump…same. Elon…same.
Pretty much anyone at the very top of government now…same.
Hahaha you expect politicians to hold themselves accountable!? That would take things like integrity and honesty. You know honor, that thing the we just voted to kill forever.
Yeah, like, what the fuck? Don’t the rest of us go to jail if we do this?
Well yeah but we’re not born rich to the ruling class. Our fathers and grandfathers weren’t Senators like Mattys were.
Rules for thee, not for me.
So he is qualified. Only Rapists are allowed in.
Seriously, it wasn’t even as lite as the titile makes it out to be.
“Gaetz did drugs while paying a child who hadnt even made it to her final year of high school while serving as a GOP representative and the GOP covered for him” would be more accurate
“Matt Gaetz does Republican shit.” would’ve been accurate.
Paragon of conservative virtues and former leading figure of elected government officials, everyone.
That finger gonna be wore down soon bubba
Fixed: Matt Gaetz, former Trump AG pick, ha
d sex withraped an underage girl while in Congress, House Ethics report saysA minor cannot consent.
har aped
Brutal.
In Florida a 17 year old can consent.
Matt Gaetz being older than 24 is the illegal part. He groomed a young girl.
Also, because he paid her, then the offense involves the procurement of a person who is under 18 years of age, so the charge increases to a second degree felony, which can result in up to 15 years of imprisonment, a fine of up to $10,000, or both.
If it only costs $10,000 to do that then it’s only illegal for poor people
Welcome to America.
Where “Speeding fine” has totally opposite meanings depending on how rich you are.
I like the Swiss and Finnish laws for speeders. The fine is based on your income.
Isn’t it a felony above a certain amount of speed, though?
That needs to be proven. An expensive traffic ticket attorney could get the charges dismissed (scrutinize the evidence, challenge the officer’s observations, find fault in equipment etc.).
I think 25+ is wreckless endangerment or some such and more illegal than other types of speeding. This is all based on my shitty memory. I just generally don’t speed.
No she couldn’t consent to anyone over 24, which he was. Also, I would have to play catch-up, but if this is one of the girls he flew to New Jersey to have sex with… It’s sex trafficking a minor right?
I think consent is the wrong word here. A 17 year old can consent to a subgroup of people (under 24). Therfore she is above the age of consent.
The girl has full control over her decisions but, more importantly, should not be charged with any crime.
Gaetz on the other hand …
Consent is tied to legality. You can consent to a credit card at 18 but not 17.
I can tell someone it’s fine to punch me in the face, and you could call that consent. When the person next door sees it out the window and calls the police, they show up and will arrest them. Both parties say they approved of it and no one wants to press charges. Tough shit, if they follow the law they arrest the person, charges for assault are placed against the person who punched by the State it happened in.
The “victim” who thinks they consented can tell the state prosecutor they don’t want there to be charges when they get a subpeno to show in court.
So did I ever actually give consent? No… I never had legal right to at any age.
(There are some loop holes in a few states, and ways to get out of it, but you get the point)
Note: This is a another huge example of how laws are broken and ignored by companies and people with money as well. An NFL contract may list that consent was placed to be hit during a tackle, but when a play is over and someone intentionally kicks someone in the ribs, slams someone’s head down into the ground again or hits a player the league “fines them or suspends them” but they are criminal charges so they should be out in front of a judge. Why would they be exempt from the law.
Fun example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CgjAN_wgmiI
Nobody goes to jail if you don’t press charges bucko. Nice try though.
That’s not how criminal law works, actually. In criminal courts the State brings charges regardless of the victims wishes.
Is there a c/confidentlyincorrect ?
You have no idea how assault charges go. The charges are from the State, not a person. It isn’t a civil case. (Also you could be in another country, so maybe it is different in your country)
Also a civil suit can be filed separately for restitution by the person. So you could have criminal and civil suits side by side
Note: most domestic violence charges in the U.S. the partner does NOT want charges to be placed.
I don’t know about this case, I can definitely imagine him raping that girl.
But from a European perspective, saying minors cannot consent is definitely one of these very stupid US takes. It is honestly insane that in the US 18 is treated like a god, and if one partner is some months older, it’s illegal.
Obviously, minors can generally be influenced more easily than older people, and it’s important to have safeguards in place, but such a statement is just genuinely ridiculous.That’s not the case in this scenario, and rarely is. It varies by state, but Romeo and Juliet laws are common, which cover these kinds of circumstances.
Basically, the law will set an acceptable age gap where consent can happen; If the gap is 5 years, then a 17 year old won’t be able to consent to sex with a 30 year old, but can with an 18-22 year old. So it helps maintain the “this is obviously a child who was groomed by a creepy middle-aged person” statutory rape laws, while still allowing kids to date each other.
In some states they just straight up do the European thing where all that matters is being at least 16. In my state the age of consent is 16 and that’s also the age where you can be tried as an adult. They recently voted on whether or not to raise the age, and they decided no.
There is still push for that to be changed, though only for the age of being tried as an adult. The former they’re kinda keen on keeping where it is.
It is honestly insane that in the US 18 is treated like a god, and if one partner is some months older, it’s illegal.
You’ll be relieved to know that this is never the case.
Let me tell you about Wisconsin: We regularly bump 17-year-old offenders into adult court. So, yes, we have had cases of 17-year-old couples tried as adults for having sex with a minor after they had sex with each other.
If the implication of that fact hasn’t sunk in I’ll make it explicit: We treat them as adults for the purposes of being a criminal, and a minor for the purposes of being a victim.
Ok that one is on me. I don’t know why I expected Romeo and Juliet clauses to have some level of consistency in all states.
Actually it happens all the time
… had sex with an underage girl…
So, rape? Underage people can’t consent, it’s rape. He’s a pedophile.
Yup. The report specifically found he violated FL statutory rape law, among other laws, but headlines continue to not call it what it is.
America’s willingness to elect pedophiles/rapists to the highest positions in their country is… baffling. To then have their news not even use those words just makes me worry so much for women in the US. Like seriously, ‘sex with underage girl,’ we have specific words for that. Embarrassing.
It’s not baffling. Sad and terrible, but not baffling at all.
As a non-American (Canadian), it’s baffling to me. Our Conservatives have been quite horrific in many decisions (like refusing to admit climate change exists, for example), but I do actually think they would turn on one of their own who was a pedophile. Maybe not in a year or so, but for now, I do believe they would. To see people celebrate these monstrous things in their leaders is terrifying.
Yup. It’s a big club, and we ain’t in it.
Just look at religion for answers to that puzzle. The entire schtick is a manual for giving yourself and your friends easy outs from your constant and consistent bad behaviour
Just look at religion for answers to that puzzle. The entire schtick is a manual for giving yourself and your friends easy outs from your constant and consistent bad behaviour
I guess that could be why; up here in Canada it’s political suicide to be openly religious (though I think the Cons will change their tune on that next election.)
It is baffling, especially since this is the same country where people have been arrested for CP because they had photos of themselves.
It’s the double standards in these laws that get me.
inb4 the weirdos come saying “well she was 17, so he’s acktually a hebo whatever blah blah” as if it matters
That would matter in New York, just ask Jerry Seinfeld
It matters only in that it gives cover to the extra extra sick ones that go after young children.
The correct phrasing is raped. He raped a child.
No, he is influential and rich. So the most damning phrase can be „had sex with“. The alternatives were „seduced“ or „was seduced by“.
Engaged in amorous behavior with a woman some years younger than him.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they even go with “was raped by”, that she did it just to get him in trouble and he had no choice.
“had relations with a young woman”
Ok so now put him in jail wtf?
So why did it take so long to release the report? From well before the election iirc. How is this not in the publics interest? Release the ‘vote to release the report’ vote also?
Evidently DOJ was investigating, so the ethics committee back burnered it. Then of course it went nowhere, and gaetz wasn’t pissing any republicans off at that moment so it wasn’t reopened right away.
You know, I’m willing to believe that Gaetz genuinely didn’t know the girl’s age the first time they had sex. The report acknowledges as much. And I’m unwilling to accuse anybody, even someone as detestable as Gaetz, of something that they didn’t do especially when there’s evidence supporting their claim. And right now, there is plenty of evidence that he did not know she was underage when they had sex.
The first time.
Then he went back for seconds. Anyone who has ever been in an FWB relationship knows how it works. You don’t just sit there and make an appointment for every Tuesday afternoon to just get together and quietly fuck like you’re in a clinical trial or something. You don’t get into an FWB relationship without getting to know someone. There’s going to be small talk involved. Playful banter. Genuine conversation. And at some point in that conversation, age is going to come into play. Even if she doesn’t directly say “I’m 17!!!”, she’s going to mention how much she hates the classes she’s taking. Or her plans after she graduates. Or what she plans on being when she grows up. Or the fact she still lives at home. Something. Something is going to give away her age, or at the very least cause a reasonable person to at least start asking questions like “So what college do you go to?” to attempt to figure out how old she is.
And even if she’s just being paid by an intermediary or something, small talk is still going to be involved. Even the most highly paid prostitute is going to engage in casual conversation to break the ice.
However it ended up, if it just happened once, I’d be willing to bet he genuinely didn’t know her age. Then he went back for seconds. At that point, any reasonable person is going to believe he knew, and just didn’t care.
The law specifically doesn’t make a distinction in cases like Gaetz’ because he paid her for it. The moment it becomes prostitution, any “I didn’t know” defense gets immediately disregarded. It’s to prevent child sex traffickers from claiming ignorance to plea down to a lesser charge.
I know how strict liability crimes work. I’m saying that the fact that it’s a strict liability crime takes a valid option away from the defendant and is akin to railroading. If you’re at an event available only to wealthy, connected adults and their companions and you happen to get together with one of them, it’s reasonable to assume that the person you’re connecting with is a consenting adult. In fact, barring evidence to the contrary such as something she said, I would actually consider it unreasonable to assume that a 17 year old girl would have access to that party, or the wealth and connections needed to gain access. And I would consider it unreasonable and in fact rude to ask someone to verify their age at that particular type of gathering. With that said, I am well aware that the law doesn’t agree with me. I just think that the law happens to be wrong.
I would consider it unreasonable and in fact rude for a 35 year old to even attempt to fuck a 17 year old who may look a few years older.
Add payments into the mix and reasonableness goes out the window.
Read my previous statements.
His subsequent encounters? Yeah, that’s all on him. I’m just saying that in the specific context of their first encounter, he did not intend to have sex with a 17 year old girl, and had no reason to believe the girl was underage given the circumstances.
The fact that he paid for sex is a different circumstance than paying for sex with a minor. They weren’t paying 17 year old girls $400 a whack for sex. They were paying girls $400 a whack for sex, and one of them happened to be 17 years old. I doubt the people who hired these girls were checking IDs or doing background checks. Regarding that first encounter, should Gaetz be held accountable for paying for sex and drugs? Absolutely. But he shouldn’t be getting extra punishment because she was a minor when there is no evidence he was searching for one.
Everything after that is all on him.
The committee said it found evidence that Gaetz did not learn the victim’s age until a month after they had sex. But “statutory rape is a strict liability crime,” the report said, referring to crimes that don’t require proof of intent for a conviction.
And this is one of the problems with strict-liability crimes like this. Again, say what you will about being at a drug-fueled party in the first place, but Gaetz had every reason to believe he was engaging in consensual (if abhorrent) sexual activity with a willing adult. Everything else he did is 100% on him, but in this specific case, I can’t help but feel that the guy is getting railroaded. Especially since that is by far the most serious charge he is facing.
Gaetz had every reason to believe he was engaging in consensual (if abhorrent) sexual activity with a willing adult.
what reason?
He was at a drug-fueled party with wealthy, well-connected people. There would be no reason to believe that a 17 year old girl would have the wealth or connections needed to gain access to that party. Most of the women attending the party were regular attendees. Gaetz had absolutely no reason (that we know of) to believe that the one girl that he randomly hooked up with at this party happened to be a minor that nobody had realized was 17. The report says as much. Now if anyone has any evidence that this specific girl was hired for Gaetz with the knowledge she was 17, then that’s a different story. But given everything we know, there was no reason to believe she was anything other than a consenting adult.
That said, it’s kinda moot anyway. He only has a valid defense for the first time they hooked up. They had apparently met multiple times and while the report gives no indication that he knew of her age for over a month, I don’t think a reasonable person would hook up with someone multiple times and either not say how old she was or never give any indication that something may not be right. Something is going to slip in casual conversation. If they only hooked up the one time, I’d say the case was overblown and actually be on his side. But once he started going back for more, any defense of him not knowing her age becomes less and less believable.
He was at a drug-fueled party with wealthy, well-connected people. There would be no reason to believe that a 17 year old girl would have the wealth or connections needed to gain access to that party.
are you new?
of course a party like that would have underage girls. it is a situation that FAMOUSLY has underage girls.
can you at least tell me they were IDing at the door?
Hot take: the difference between 17 and 18 doesn’t actually matter, and the real problem is Matt Gaetz abused his position of power to coerce young, relatively powerless women into sex with him. Crossing the line of 17 vs 18 is so unimportant in this particular case. Matt Gaetz fights to maintain a system where young women have no power, and utilizes his socio-economic position in that system to sexually abuse those women. Whether she’s just finishing up high school, or in her first year of university, we’re still talking about a young women who feels like she needs that money to step forward in her life, and Matt Maetz, and many others like him, are responsible for creating that need. To then use that need to get sexual gratification from those same young women is fucking disgusting, whether or not she’s crossed the socially dictated line of “adulthood.”
Hot take: the difference between 17 and 18 doesn’t actually matter
Oh it absolutely matters in 12 states in this country, including Florida.
i think the person you’re replying to is making a normative claim. they’re talking about how there really isn’t much difference in maturity/development between a 17 year old and an 18 year old. both ages are way too young for this guy, not to mention the power imbalances, etc. but you’re right that as far as the law is concerned, there is a big difference between 17 and 18 year olds.
i think the person you’re replying to is making a normative claim.
That much I agree with. There’s little to no practical difference. And in his defense, if anyone has been to a drug-fueled party, they can tell you how common anonymous (and sometimes public) sex happens. Say what you will about him being at a drug-fueled sex party in the first place, but if you’re at a drug-fueled party with a whole bunch of wealthy and well connected adults and engage in sexual activity, it’s not unreasonable to assume that the person you’re screwing is an adult.
The difference between 17 and 18 can’t be brushed off, though, when that difference almost singlehandedly makes the difference between you getting the side-eye and getting a prison sentence.
And bitches wonder why we’re cheering Luigi, when shit like this doesn’t even matter?
You can be against this kind of behavior while also not celebrating murder, you know?
Thanks, but I’m 100% cool with vigilante justice for a man who profited at the death and misery of countless others. I’ll take Luigi’s justice when there is no alternative. And there is none, truly. Otherwise the rapists Gaetz and Trump would be rotting in prison.
But hey: enjoy your moral high ground.
Luigi didn’t commit murder. It was community self defense.
A CEO is a position, not a person. Killing him isn’t any sort of defense when he isn’t actively endangering others.
It’s murder, even if it’s justified. Stop these idiotic word games. They only weaken your position.
He is mass murderer. Would you clutch pearls if someone assassinated a warlord?
Pointing out your wanton violation of language isn’t pearl clutching.
If your use of the word warlord is equivocated to all hell like your other vocab choices our warlord might be a janitor or some shit, so it’s hard to say.
Edit: also, merry christmas. I hope the holiday season has been well :)
I think many people are celebrating the karma. If anyone had it coming, he sure did.
You know?
Not the one you responded to, but the evidence is quite damning, so yes I’d go stop far as to say its very reasonable to say that we know.
I was trying to reference the commenter above. :(
You can be, but the world will be a better place in 50 years if 7 billion people were murdered today ,so you also dont have to.
Uh what?
matt gaetz, confirmed pedophile
Where are all the pizzagate dipshits now?
About to take elected office.
