I have degoogled my phone few years ago it really hit me how much the phones depend on Google services. Few examples from of my daily usage when I compromised:

  1. Communication

I’m in students group, people there have own group chat on facebook messenger. They share info regarding tests, deadlines etc. Basically standard uni messaging. Unless I had fake Facebook account to be there I would have to collect all info by myself. The alternative is a discord server, which in privacy terms is questionable choice too.

At least I have few friends who use Signal or Element, but it’s minority.

What do you usually use and offer when people ask you for contact?

  1. Banking app

Banking app I used has blocked me from app after few years of using it when they realized I have it from “unofficial” source - Aurora store. That motivated to switch the bank and app, which doesn’t really on Google Play services. The easiest way to do that was browsing Huawei app store and finding the most suitable app. Do you use baking apps?

  1. Taxi/Transport

Of course theres no way to use Bolt/Uber for transport on degoogled device. What’s your way of transport after having few beers in pub? Do you use taxi via calling it directly or use that weird Telegram taxi addon?

  1. Map directions

Is there a way to convert google map pins to open source solutions and vice versa? What’s your recommended software for directions? What do you use for driving?

  1. Fitness

Do you track fitness activities?

  1. Phone

Do you have good phone recommendations? I know that GrapheneOS+Pixel is one, but what about others?

  • Stomata@sh.itjust.works
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    8 hours ago

    First one is also my problem. I hate Facebook but for my college I have a account(totally nothing in it). It sucks.

  • utopiah@lemmy.ml
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    9 hours ago
    1. email, everybody has that, if they can’t use it, well up to them to offer an alternative but anyway with DeltaChat I can get notified instantly.
    2. Web. Sure the app does provide some convenience but most banks do have a working website that do not need an app as usually SMS 2FA works.
    3. Real taxis do have phone numbers… but they also have apps and most do not required Google Services AFAIK
    4. OpenStreetMap and CityMapper and (I know I’m going to sound nuts) but actually road signs or asking people
    5. No but same, plenty of apps on F-Droid that don’t require Google Services, otherwise… a .txt file? .ods spreadsheet with visual? Same on NextCloud so you can share with others even though nobody cares? (sorry)
    6. PinePhone, PinePhone Pro, Purism Librem, and (ahem…) Apple iPhone if you want a compromise between privacy and still convenience?
  • /home/pineapplelover@lemm.ee
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    10 hours ago
    1. At school lots of students use Discord. So I just use Discord along with them. I don’t give Discord phone number and I expect all metadata, DMs, and server messages to be publicly available.

    2. I don’t use a banking app, even though it does work on my phone (graphene)

    3. I don’t use taxi/transport app so I actually haven’t come across this yet. I guess I could try calling an old fashioned taxi.

    4. Man, this is a toughie. I’ve tried Osmand, Organic Maps, and Magic Earth. None of them work flawlessly. Recently I’ve succumbed to using Waze with no account.

    5. I don’t, I kinda just try to be as healthy as possible. Although, if I had to, I would look into Garmin watches. I’m not sure about privacy but it seems they’re one of the few that don’t require a subscription.

    6. Graphene is the best choice for privacy and security. You could try out Linux phones but it’s very developmental. Calyx is an option but it’s not security focused.

  • monovergent 🏁@lemmy.ml
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    14 hours ago

    In my personal life and in communicating with family, there are few compromises. Most of my compromises come from work.

    Phone: Pixel with GrapheneOS and FOSS apps only as my primary. Old Pixel 4a with GrapheneOS as my secondary, with the main profile as testing grounds for various apps and a second profile holding work apps. Whatsapp seems to be the lowest common denominator for practical communication with colleagues.

    My workplace is BYOD, with MDM only for software licensing. Alongside my customary X230, I carry my lightweight, secondhand X1 Nano, where I have Windows, software licensed alongside said MDM, and Firefox logged into my work Google account.

    Key aspect for me is having work and personal life on separate devices. Not completely airtight, but as good as I can get it without making work any harder than it needs to be.

    Banking: Fortunately everything my bank has to offer can be done through a browser. My plan if a mobile app with play integrity ever becomes necessary is to buy a regular Android with a removable battery just to host that app.

    Transport: If I’m on a business trip without access to my car (no spyware, it’s from the 90s) and there is no public transport, I’ll get a friend or colleague to call an Uber for me. I haven’t gone out drinking at night since college and I’m not inclined to do so in the future.

    Maps: Usually Organic Maps suffices, I generally commit routes to memory before going out. For the occasional satellite map, Google Maps in a browser. I have gotten my family to use Magic Earth though.

    Fitness: no actual stats, just a handwritten entry in my daily journal as to whether I followed through with my exercise routine.

  • Gayhitler@lemmy.ml
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    21 hours ago

    Some food for thought:

    Absence of information is its own sort of information. You may find it worthwhile in your search for an acceptable compromise to place some kind of value on “looking normal”.

  • JustARegularNerd@aussie.zone
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    23 hours ago

    Seems that everyone else has said the same as what I mostly already do, but I’ll just make a couple comments on the student communication topic:

    My university already created a Microsoft 365 account for my university user, which included Teams. For my threat profile, I don’t consider Teams a terrible option if I’m only using it for study purposes, so I’ve communicated over that for assignments before (web UI only).

    Otherwise like others have suggested, some students are open to something like Signal (a fellow student got me onto it years ago) if you kindly ask and mention upfront that it just requires a phone number. I did an assignment over Signal with two other students, so it’s very doable.

  • goatmeal@midwest.social
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    1 day ago

    Sometimes for work trips I’ll user uber in a vanadium web browser. I think they also have a number you can call to order one. Primarily for old people but works well in this case.

    Using uber is its own question but you got to find the most private set up that works for you. Anything is better than nothing.

  • ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 day ago

    My compromise is to just to minimize big tech tracking.

    I mean, 90% of data is because people use corporate social media with real names and real IPs. I don’t use “social media” like everyone else, and that is just cutting away 90% of mass surveillance. I only occasionally look at reddit over VPN (without loggining in and never posting anything), I use Lemmy over Tor. Use Fennec (aka: firefox, but from F-Droid) + uBlock Origin + VPN, for everything else (like watching youtube videos)

    I usually only have Fennec and Tor (amongst a few other things) through VPN, everything else is going to clearnet. My though is, if I put the entire traffic over VPN, Google would see my VPN IP attached to my device serial number.

    If there is some university thing, I’d just begrudgingly use it. Use browser if possible, but if app is required, probably put it in a “work profile” (the Shelter app from F-Droid can do that) to separate it from everything else, and prevent any such app from seeing my files. Also give as few permissions as possible. And never installing any “profiles” or “certificates” they give you for access to their wifi. They should have a “guest wifi” without such requirements so just use that instead. (Or get a second phone with the “Share Wifi Connection” ability and use that as your “router” and connect your main phone to it.) Or just use mobile data if you can afford it.

    For banking, put the app in the “work profile” or use browser if whatever you need to do doen’t require the app.

    For uber/lyft/taxi, probably use the browser, or if that doesn’t work, again, put the app in work profile, don’t give permissions until I’m ready to use it, and its getting deleted the moment my ride is done.

    For maps, unfortunately I still have to use Google Maps, because I value being alive and not getting lost in some sketchy neighborhood over the privacy… 😓

    I feel like Graphene OS is too much of a hassle for me, I’ll have to get a Pixel, which does not have a microSD slot, and that’s a dealbreaker for me.

    • JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz
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      1 day ago

      Well, calyxos works on some motos and fairphones (the fairphone is expensive as shit tho and used motos are relatively nonexistant in the used market). Edit: some frp locked are currently on ebay (if you enjoy getting scammed).

      • ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        17 hours ago

        I have trust issues with used phones tbh. It goes beyons the FRP.

        Like… who knows if the previous owner is a drug dealer or something, then the authorities got the IMEI, then if I use that phone, the cops assume that I am that drug dealer.

        Imagine they got an agency like the United State’s DEA involved, and you happened to be using that phone that used to belong to a drug dealer, the authorities just send a pegasus, upload all your stuff, activate cameras microphones. Then eventually raid your house.

        I don’t like the thought of that.

        • JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz
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          11 hours ago

          Well, you’re kinda fucked. At least I live in the EU, so it’s not as big of a threat, as I could gather the evidence about the purchase and maybe not get murdered.

  • SpicyAnt@mander.xyz
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    2 days ago
    1. The fear of missing out was something that made me double think deleting my facebook. It turned out to be unfounded fear, as none of the hypothetical “missing out” scenarios have proven to be an actual problem.

    If the study group is very important to you, and the study group is on Facebook, then just have a Facebook. Deadlines and test info are not critical information that you need to receive in your pocket as soon as it is shared. You can check your anonymous Facebook account once a week through a VPN in a desktop computer and you will likely be well informed enough. If you have a friend that is both in Signal and that Facebook group, you can tell them about this and ask as a favor that they forward any critical time-sensitive info.

    As for my response, mostly I use XMPP. I turn on my WhatsApp phone on every few weeks. People can message me via XMPP, e-mail, or Signal.

    1. I have a little scanner. I can use the phone’s browser and log-in, using the scanner for the 2FA. But it is very rare that I use banking through the phone, as I do most of my banking via a desktop computer.

    2. Bike, public transport, walking, and planning ahead.

    3. On the desktop I do use Google Maps as it is quite efficient. Usually I plan ahead if I am biking somewhere new. I will often draw a path, write some street names at turns/crossings to remember, and pick some landmarks. Usually I am moving near places I know, so this is not task that comes up often.

    4. At different points in time I have kept multiple fitness and nutrition logs (on websites and notebooks), but I rarely looked back at them. Now days I track rest times, hear rate, and running parameters while exercising, so I have a garmin watch and look at the output logs at the end of the exercise on the watch itself. It is not connected to any apps.

    5. I make use of three devices: I. A Pixel phone running GrapheneOS has no SIM card. I have my apps, music, etc in this phone, and I use it as a mini tablet. It needs WiFi to get internet.

    II. A PinePhone. I bought a large stack of the cheapest pre-paid SIM cards a while ago, and put in a new one whenever a SIM card runs out. I wrote a hook that, when I power down the device, a random IMEI is generated and written to the LTE modem. So, if I turn it off, swap the SIM, and turn it back on, I have a phone with a completely new mobile identity. This phone I can use to make calls and to share data with the GrapheneOS, but it does not have a static phone number. Usually it is off.

    III. A Raspberry Pi 5 with a 4G LTE hat. This hat takes in a SIM card that is stable. So, this device is associated with a phone number and a persistent identifier, but it does not move. This is my phone number. SMS messages get sent to me via XMPP. If I am called, my XMPP also lets me know. I don’t have VoIP, so I do need to call back if I choose to. However, it is so so rare that I make a phone call that I have not bothered to implement VoIP.

    • shucks@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      6 hours ago

      Damn, having a stationary “phone” that relays SMS and calls to you over trusted channels while you’re away is really cool!

  • TranquilTurbulence
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    2 days ago

    I had very similar experiences around 2015. Before that, it was reasonably easy to use a fully FOSS system, but things have gotten worse over the years. Sure, there’s more FOSS for mobile hardware than ever before, but the world surrounding the phone has moved in the exact opposite direction. Being compatible with the world around you is the problem here.

    Back then, I couldn’t find a satisfactory solution. One extreme is to go full on FOSS, and cut at least 50% of the entire world from your life, while the other is to sacrifice your privacy at altar of corporate greed. Between the two there are numerous dissatisfying compromises, and you need to do some soul searching to figure out where you want to draw the line.

  • communism@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    The alternative is a discord server, which in privacy terms is questionable choice too.

    I use a Discord-Matrix bridge to communicate with some groups that are only on Discord. Of course it still all goes over Discord’s servers so the messaging itself isn’t private, but you at least don’t have to use Discord’s proprietary client, and the only data Discord will have is the data you send it from the Matrix bridge (plus identifying data on the Matrix server you’re using).

    What do you usually use and offer when people ask you for contact?

    Signal as a preference—not because I think it’s the best chat app (I dislike its centralised nature; not being able to self-host is a near-on dealbreaker if not for the fact that everyone I know is on Signal; and it requiring a phone number to sign up is also bad for privacy)—but because it’s the one the most people have. All my friends are on it luckily, by nature of my friends largely being communists or young queer people (or both). I also offer SMS and email. If someone asks a pretty open-ended “how can I contact you”, I might also mention Matrix and Simplex as options in case they have those.

    Do you use ba[n]king apps?

    No, and I really don’t understand why people do unless your bank requires it and there isn’t another appropriate bank that doesn’t require it. I’ve tried my bank’s app (which works fine on GOS luckily) and found it didn’t offer anything the web UI didn’t offer, other than the option to use the app as 2FA for banking stuff, but I just get SMS 2FA from my bank.

    What’s your way of transport after having few beers in pub? Do you use taxi via calling it directly or use that weird Telegram taxi addon?

    I don’t use taxis; I use public transport. But if I had to get a taxi, I would probably either use my GPlay profile on my GOS phone to install Uber, or I would probably just ring a taxi company over the phone.

    Is there a way to convert google map pins to open source solutions and vice versa?

    I’m not aware of a way. I’ve just told people to either give me an address or coordinates, because I don’t have google maps.

    What’s your recommended software for directions? What do you use for driving?

    Organic Maps has been my go-to for a while. It’s wonderful. Works well for driving too. I use RHVoice for text-to-speech, which iirc was recommended to me by a fellow lemming.

    I don’t track fitness activities, and I use GOS+Pixel.

    • OnePhoenix@lemmy.ml
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      23 hours ago

      but I just get SMS 2FA from my bank.

      How do you feel about the claims of SMS 2FA not being safe? Does that bother you? Or is it a risk you’re willing to take? Genuinely asking because my banking app does the same and I’m not sure how much of a real ‘threat’ SMS 2FA is.

      • communism@lemmy.ml
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        20 hours ago

        SMS 2FA is not secure, and I don’t particularly care about the security of my bank account. I have a state threat model as a political organiser, a very real one given the arrests, raids, imprisonment, etc I and my comrades have faced, meanwhile I’m not aware of any rando civilians hellbent on stealing my money. And frankly I don’t have that much money to steal anyway. If you’re determined to get my sim card to log into my meagre bank account you probably need the money more than me.

        I guess if you’re that worried about SMS security you could get an esim and rely on device encryption to protect it. Wouldn’t be the most secure thing in the world but at least it provides some protection, and if you buy an esim anonymously (e.g. with https://silent.link/) an attacker can’t impersonate you to try get your sim card.

  • scoobford
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    2 days ago

    What do you usually use and offer when people ask you for contact?

    Ask your family/partner/friends to use signal, it is idiot proof enough for most people. You can provide your email and phone number for acquaintances who you don’t speak with enough to justify installing signal.

    I’m not in any student groups, but you can make a dummy Facebook account and only login using their website from behind a VPN.

    Banking app I used has blocked me from app after few years of using it when they realized I have it from “unofficial” source - Aurora store.

    Just use their website and carry a physical credit card in the back of your phone case.

    What’s your way of transport after having few beers in pub? Do you use taxi via calling it directly or use that weird Telegram taxi addon?

    We literally just drive drunk here. Is public transit an option? Again, you can sandbox these apps or use their respective websites.

    Is there a way to convert google map pins to open source solutions and vice versa? What’s your recommended software for directions? What do you use for driving?

    Organic maps is good if you have an address and only need directions. If you need complete records of where local businesses are and traffic info, google maps is your only option. I’d set it up in a sandboxes container though, at the very least.

    Do you track fitness activities?

    No, and I’d argue that nobody other than serious athletes need to. That being said, you can get a tracker that does not connect to your phone or the internet.

    Do you have good phone recommendations? I know that GrapheneOS+Pixel is one, but what about others?

    Graphene+pixel is head and shoulders the best option, especially in places like the US where you have to worry about illegal searches. Privacy requires security. That being said, there are alternatives if you cannot afford a new device: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

    • Sergio@slrpnk.net
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      2 days ago

      you can make a dummy Facebook account and only login using their website from behind a VPN.

      After a couple days Facebook will say you are suspicious and demand that you upload a government ID (and/or take a “video selife” or something similar.)

      • scoobford
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        2 days ago

        Then depending on OP’s comfort level, they can either just use their Facebook account for this student group, or they can use GIMP to modify a scan of their actual ID.

  • shortwavesurfer
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    2 days ago
    1. I tell people to contact me on signal or SimpleX, and if they don’t, then I don’t talk to them.
    2. My banks app ran fine, but I wanted to use the website instead of having the app and the website did not support all functionality, so I switched banks entirely to an older style bank, not one of these new Neo fintech banks. Think Wells Fargo instead of chime.
    3. At least at the moment, you can still use m.uber.com.
    4. Use gps-coordinates.net, put in the address you wish to go to, and then copy the latitude and longitude given into OpenStreetmaps OSMAnd (f-droid).
    5. No, i dont
    6. The combination you mentioned is definitely the easiest. Otherwise, you have to look at lineage OS. And that doesn’t have as many security protections.
  • OnePhoenix@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    I think it’s a lot to do with developing a threat model that works for you, and understanding that, unless you’re trying to be Jason Bourne, there’s always going to be SOME compromise - the level of compromise again, depends on you.

    A couple years ago when I started down this rabbit hole, I was doing EVERYTHING that I read on every privacy blog: I started using GrapheneOS, completely degoogled my phone, didn’t use any non-FOSS apps, no location apps, the whole 9 yards.

    I soon came to realize I had to find a compromise. I now follow a threat model that best works for me… Naturally there are weaknesses in it, but it’s things I’m willing to risk.

    1. I use Element with anyone willing to use it with me. I use QKSMS with anyone else.
    2. I created a separate profile on my phone with Graphene that only has my banking apps. It still uses Aurora store and sandboxed Google services.
    3. I don’t live in an area where things like Uber are available so that ones not a problem for me. I just call for a taxi oldschool.
    4. OSMand+. I won’t turn it on (or location) until I’m away from my house and already on the way. You can also manually download apps for offline and use it like an old school paper map.
    5. Kind of unrelated but, I use Obsidian for almost everything I keep track of in my life. I document my fitness exploits on Obsidian.
    6. I use a Pixel 8 with GrapheneOS. I use my phone calls as per normal but usually try and text (see #1 above) my phone also has a record button when you call someone - I’ll generally record every conversation I have with anyone from any company, etc., which has already saved me some headaches in a few cases where service providers promised something and then didn’t follow through and I could go back in the recording and prove they said a certain thing.

    A few extras:

    1. I also have an audio recorder on my phone with a shortcut that turns it on when I double tap my screen. I use this whenever I go somewhere strange/alone like a Kijiji meet up or something, get pulled over by the cops, etc. - just for safety/contingency.
    2. I use Kmeet for video chat with family, friends.
    3. I use Pipepipe, Newpipe, etc. for videos and most music.
    4. Proton for VPN
    5. Proton/Tuta for email.
    6. Ente for photos.

    That’s just my little process… I know some of these aren’t directly related to common phone usage but it’s how I use my phone daily, so hopefully some of it is interesting to you.