00:00:00 - intro
00:00:39 - influencer culture is rotten
00:01:19 - my community post 00:03:20 - what is honey?

00:05:40 - Part 1: linus & honey, self-image perception vs. audience well being
00:06:41 - “would it have gone well for me?”
00:07:08 - it’s not about you
00:07:35 - your responsibility as an influencer
00:08:28 - thieves can’t be trusted
00:09:10 - browser extensions can monitor browser activity
00:09:36 - steve burke’s missing context
00:09:45 - reading Linus’ quote
00:10:28 - the part steve burke left out
00:11:05 - the “context” makes linus look worse
00:11:10 - Linus’ manipulation to escape accountability
00:12:00 - what pisses me off
00:12:45 - you took money for high visibility video, post retraction on the main channel
00:13:02 - so post it
00:13:35 - Accepting the premise of assholes: part 1
00:14:00 - responsibility to your audience is more important than your perception of your image
00:14:30 - our audience should make our own decisions
00:15:13 - linus’ manipulative nature
00:15:40 - louis loses it
00:16:02 - if linus cared about his audience, what he’d do

00:18:33 - why steve didn’t include the context
00:19:43 - accepting the premise of assholes: part 2
00:20:45 - real influencer vs. poser influencer
00:21:20 - how steve got gaslit by accepting the premise of assholes
00:22:05 - how steve allowed himself to change
00:22:43 - steve updated his website for right to reply
00:23:44 - ignore the tone police

00:24:17 - what right to reply means to linus
00:24:55 - none of you care about right to reply
00:25:03 - right to reply: exhibit 1
00:25:30 - right to reply: exhibit 2
00:26:23 - right to reply: exhibit 3
00:27:00 - what right to reply means to linus
00:27:22 - ranting about steve burke more
00:28:15 - how to properly handle that situation

00:30:17 - the iMac video - my personal experience with linus’ manipulation
00:30:40 - Linus’ skeevy email to me
00:31:24 - Linus’ broken iMac storyline
00:31:45 - i showed up while in canada
00:31:58 - i was honest about not needing travel money when offered since i was already there
00:32:39 - personality traits of a narcissist
00:33:05 - my email reply to linus I’m 99% certain either jessa or anna wrote after stealing my keyboard & deleting a page of curse words
00:33:30 - the cost ratio of the board to the video income makes this ridiculous
00:35:15 - imagine if I pulled this on steve burke
00:36:34 - imagine if I pulled this on paul daniels
00:36:41 - deference to the king, paul daniels
00:38:40 - Linus weaponized a joke 16 months later
00:39:29 - I am not a Linus Media Group shareholder
00:40:27 - businesses have loss leaders
00:40:55 - loss leaders are the responsibility of the business owner
00:42:10 - this is wrestling. it’s not real
00:43:05 - my back and forth
00:44:23 - I can’t behave like this to other content creators

00:45:03 - Linus trust me bro warranty thing
00:45:34 - A lost opportunity due to Linus’ narcissism
00:46:00 - warranties are being eroded every year
00:46:33 - business owners that know it’s not about them just make a warranty without throwing a fit
00:47:01 - linus made it about him
00:47:08 - linus monetized making fun of people who cared about consumer rights
00:47:14 - linus pits factions of his audience against each other, all to protect his fragile ego, at the expense of an opportunity to bring people together on consumer rights
00:47:50 - does linus run his business on trust me bro?
00:48:10 - does LMG trust you bro to have discussions on your pay with coworkers?
00:48:27 - does LMG trust you bro to not start their own youtube channels?
00:48:45 - The missed opportunity
00:50:08 - The right way to treat employees
00:50:30 - What my employees did for me

00:51:05 - Linus sends text message to the wrong phone
00:52:48 - Linus portrays steve as callous while sending msg to wrong phone
00:54:05 - we don’t want to be like you
00:54:47 - My question to Linus
00:55:26 - the problem w/ people like Louis & Linus
00:56:27 - Nobody checks us, at our level
00:57:12 - Addressing people with similar experience 00:59:18 - someone else has had your experience
00:59:40 - i realize i am privileged in not having anything to lose
01:00:00 - your products will continue to sell
01:01:48 - a greenie for clinton

  • Kushan@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    46
    arrow-down
    14
    ·
    3 days ago

    I’m not saying LTT is perfect but I really don’t understand why they’re being made the bad guys over the whole Honey thing.

    Honey are the scumbags, it was known what they were doing before LTT dropped them yet nobody gave a fuck until it exploded a few weeks ago and somehow LTT are to blame?

    • CaptPretentious@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      40
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      2 days ago

      Honey might just be the straw. But Linus has a long list of controversies. And in every case, he never takes responsibility. It’s always somebody else, or miscommunication, etc.

      Like a decade ago, they were promoting some fake science products on their channel. When was brought out to light that the products were fake, they never made a retraction. Instead they made videos about being the victims about being called out because the videos were promoting fake products. Ltt promoted hyperloop and Tellspec. I’m sure there’s more, but I can’t recall

    • WIZARD POPE💫@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      37
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      3 days ago

      I think the main issue is they figured out what Hobey was doing and they just silently dropped them and let them continue doing this shit to other people.

      • Auli@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 day ago

        Sure but there was already news and videos about it back then. But nobody cared. Why was it in them when it was already public knowledge?

        • BrikoXOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 day ago

          Because they got paid thousands of dollars to promote it. When you accidentally promote a scam on your channel, you then go and apologize on the same channel when you learn about it. It’s basic accountability.

          They did that with their other sponsors they dropped for lesser reasons like Private Internet Access. Even the whole scandal with Asus was handled better even if they tuned out to be lairs and went back to working with them.

          • accideath@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 day ago

            Back then it wasn’t known to be scamming its users, only creators. Which was also Linus reasoning for why they didn’t make a huge deal out of it because if they told the audience „btw, that thing that saves you money costs us money, so would you be so kind as to not use it so we can make more money instead“, they would have been the assholes back then.

            • BrikoXOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 day ago

              Back then it wasn’t known to be scamming its users, only creators.

              Absolutely nobody disputes that. But that’s not the criticism of them. It’s their excuse instead.

              Which was also Linus reasoning for why they didn’t make a huge deal out of it because if they told the audience „btw, that thing that saves you money costs us money, so would you be so kind as to not use it so we can make more money instead“, they would have been the assholes back then.

              That is pure gaslighting. They could have easily said:

              We recently learned that one of our sponsors turned out to be stealing affiliate revenue from creators and as a result we are dropping them as a sponsor and making this video to spread the news. That said if you still find it useful, you can keep using it to save money when shopping.

              They would have been praised by their audience, consumers and creators.

              • accideath@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                1 day ago

                Oh, they absolutely should’ve mentioned it on WAN. Would have been the right thing to do. I understand though, why they didn’t and I’m not gonna paint them the villain because they didn’t. But yes ofc they aren’t the heroes either. Making that much drama out of it is just a little overblown though imo, when the real villain is PayPal/honey.

      • Kushan@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        2 days ago

        But that’s what I’m saying, they weren’t the first to figure it out, there was already a YouTube video up exposing it but nobody noticed it.

        • WIZARD POPE💫@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          20
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          2 days ago

          Well the issue is that they have a large platform and if they were ethical they would have shared and made sure people know about it.

      • rbesfe@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        13
        ·
        2 days ago

        They weren’t silent about it, they just didn’t make a video. There were posts on the forum about it

        • potustheplant@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          21
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          2 days ago

          Precisely one of Louis’ points. LTT took the money to give Honey tons of exposure (aka millions of views) on their video channel and then they dropped them by making a forum post a few thousand may see. Those two things are pretty far from being the same.

          • rbesfe@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            12
            ·
            edit-2
            2 days ago

            Is it really their job to notify creators through a main channel video though? Especially for something that, to their knowledge at the time, had no impact on the consumer?

            • BrikoXOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 day ago

              I wouldn’t expect if it was random recommendation in one of their videos. But yes, it is their responsibility to notify about it when they got paid thousands of dollars to promote it.

            • dukeofdummies@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              2 days ago

              … I mean… It is though. Their whole channel is about technology, potential scams, and new inventions that could be helpful or hopeless.

              It’s like, if Steve Irwin discovered a unicorn that eats toes, yeah I expect Steve Irwin to tell us. This is straight up his alley, he’s gonna teach us about animals, and if it’s a particularly terrifying one that I shouldn’t be near, all the more reason. This is quite literally how the man makes his money and the fact that he doesn’t wanna talk about it is really weird.

              Did he instead discover a random cannibal living under a bridge that eats toes? Yeah I can see why he doesn’t make that an episode. It’s not really on topic, it’s for a very different crowd.

              • rbesfe@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                1 day ago

                Differences of opinion on how one should notify their industry about a scam aside, I think both Rossman and GN are blowing this thing way out of proportion when they claim that this indicates some sort of deeper problem with LMG.

                This whole thing just reeks of attention-seeking and rage bait, rather than an effort to improve the tech YouTube landscape

            • potustheplant@feddit.nl
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 days ago

              If they were the ones promoting a service/product that they found out was a scam then yes, absolutely.

              • SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                1 day ago

                It’s wasn’t a scam to the users. Just the content creators. He has no obligation to his competition to notify them their losing money?

                Edit: I was wrong.

                • dukeofdummies@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  2 days ago

                  There actually is a case that the scam affected the users. One of the selling points of Honey’s partnership programs with sellers (not content creators, but actual store fronts) was that you could top out the maximum savings honey could “find” so you might have a 20% coupon but honey can promise to find only 15%.

                  • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    1 day ago

                    That’s a recent revelation.

                    LTT has publicly dropped sponsors before for consumer-facing issues, like with EUFY webcams. They also do secret shopping and other stuff with their sponsors, and are very willing to criticize them when they come up short on customer-facing issues.

                    TBut they dropped Honey for how they treated affiliates. That’s a business-to-business dispute having nothing to do with the product itself. If you publicly burn a former sponsor over a backend financial dispute while the customer-facing side is unchanged, you’re being unprofessional and will have trouble attracting future sponsors.

                  • Auli@lemmy.ca
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 day ago

                    Yes and this is the new recent discovery nobody knew about that part previously. So LTT could not have warned people as they didn’t know.