The US has been drunk on the delusion of how noble and benevolent we consider ourselves since World War II.
We like to conveniently forget that at the time, many Americans looked up to the Nazis and were embracing eugenics. We were legally sterilizing subjective “undesirables,” often without their knowledge, and we had no plans to do shit until the Axis, already steeped in conflict, decided to attack us directly from half a world away, committing one of the greatest self-inflicted tactical blunders in history thankfully.
America is all about subjugation, exploitation, and genocide. It just got a propaganda team to soften the way in which it talks about it since the mid 20th century.
At the end of the day, that’s the magic of America: bullshitting. Lying. To ourselves and others. From “all men* are created equal” (Only applies to wealthy Caucasian land owners) to “manifest destiny” (genocide the people that already live here because its our destiny) to “separate but equal”(even apex American bullshitters couldn’t say this one with a straight face) to “turning the bull loose”(get back to work slaves, this isn’t a society) to “don’t ask, don’t tell” (we refuse to accept you as a human being, but hey come die gruesomely so our greedy fucks can access foreign oil markets). Our bullshit machine runs so deep, we are a
nationcapital exploitation farm that practically doubles as a religion.People also forget that the people who came to the New World to escape religious persecution were being persecuted because their beliefs were so radical that no one wanted to deal with their bullshit anymore.
Yep!
And we’re still the sexuality phobic weirdos of the developed world, which stems out of our puritanical backwards forerunners.
Glorification of gruesome, bloody hyperviolence all day baby, we’ll show it on a loop on the news for the kiddos! Don’t forget to like and subscribe!
One flaccid dick or vagina in public, on the other hand, and everyone loses their minds!
This is an us thing. We are the prudes of the developed western world. “Omg a boobie AAAAHHHH my child is scarred for life!“
If there’s one thing I know about the US, it’s that everyone is afraid of boobies.
Half these people just love the drama of it. It works to your advantage if you’re a spiteful prick.
The puritans are dead an buried and the only quaker I see is on my steel cut oats.
Boycott PepsiCo!
You think we don’t consider public nudity to be indecent? Like, do you think people outside of America go around naked and nobody bats an eye?
i mean yeah in many places it is perfectly normal to basically be naked, mostly in really swelteringly hot areas. And here in the nordics there’s plenty of contexts where being naked is fine, and even outside of that the reaction to nudity is moreso “you okay bro?” than “OH GOD A NAKED PERSON ARREST THEM FOR INDECENCY”
the idea of raising a stink about a woman breastfeeding is so fucking stupid, who gives a shit if they have a tit out to feed a baby??? just look away if it’s so bothersome.
Breastfeeding is not going around naked, and going around naked is definitely something considered indecent. Like, people might not scream but they’d definitely report a maniac to the police if someone is walking down the street dressed like when he was born
At no point were they discussing nudists. That’s a strawman you created.
That’s what public nudity is
Radical beliefs aside, religious persecution was the style of the day, anything but Anglican was asking for trouble.
One of the best examples of U.S. government PR is the rebranding of the Department of War to the Department of Defense, even though its function didn’t change. People don’t like war, but call it defense and you’re golden.
“Defense companies”
Wait, I thought the Nazis were the ones looking up at the Americans and based on them
It goes both ways. Nazis were inspired by the US specifically the Jim Crow era, And US were looking up to Nazis until Japan nuked pearl harbor.
“Japan nuked pearl harbor” 💀💀💀
not nuked I meant bombed lmao
Imagine if Japan legit did a reverse Uno card on the US lmao
It was an extreme minority opinion regardless, this idea that America was almost on Germany’s side is just revisionist bunk. Even the Republicans just wanted to stay “neutral.” So neutral they didn’t even want to sell anyone guns, the unAmerican swine.
The native fascist parties were clowns that started as a pyramid scheme and couldn’t even do a coup right.
Of course, America was an apartheid state at the time, so it’s really only the democracy and not invading your neighbors bit that we were doing better in the first place.
I didn’t say America was about to side with the Nazis, I’m saying the Nazis took inspiration from American policies
so it’s really only the democracy
The US is democratic?
many Americans looked up to the Nazis
And the Nazis were looking up to Americans! House on fire and all that…
To be fair, every nation feels good about themselves. Be proud of the good things, neglect the bad things. Who would want to be the bad guy? This is how human mind works.
Except that’s not the case at all. Lots of people in lots of nations will gladly tell you their country is shit.
Including the us. Correct
So what is Iceland’s equivalent to the whole “being the most prolific funder and enabler of fascist terrorism in human history” that they are (supposedly) neglecting?
Best I could find is that they were one of the largest beneficiaries of that funding. Also they extended their fishing rights well beyond their coast, but it’s unclear to me if it breached international law or not.
Supposedly they had broken some international agreements and rules, because the Wikipedia article mentioned that the US defended them in those instances and let the infractions happen.
That’s the best I’ve got though. They’re surprisingly quite clean. Depends I guess on how you view their accepting American money.
They’re surprisingly quite clean.
Yeah… it’s actually really difficult to think of them as “western” or even “white.”
we had no plans to do shit until the Axis, already steeped in conflict, decided to attack us directly from half a world away
This is not accurate. “We” (specifically FDR) were already keeping Britain afloat financially in their war with Germany and were already literally fighting German U-boats in the Atlantic prior to Pearl Harbor. Even as far as Pearl Harbor was concerned, we were waging economic warfare against Japan by cutting off their oil and steel in response to their depredations in China - which embargo precipitated their sneak attack in the first place.
Hello, CIA tip line?
This post right here /s
God I wasted so much time writing this… it might be the longest ill ever write here.
There is a case to be made to show there is a clear representation and motive for exploitation and genocide. It would be tempting to dive into their happenings and those outcomes. However, it is important to acknowledge that US actions and policies have generated both positive and negative outcomes. While the US has championed democratic values and made significant contributions to global development and stability, it has also faced criticism for its military interventions, perceived imperialism, and involvement in conflicts with questionable justifications. Some examples
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The colonization of America by European settlers resulted in displacement, mistreatment, and, in some cases, genocide of Native American tribes. The forced removal of indigenous peoples from their ancestral lands, such as the Trail of Tears, and the establishment of reservations had devastating consequences for Native American communities.
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The institution of slavery played a significant role in the early development of the US, particularly in the southern states. Millions of Africans were forcibly brought to America as slaves, enduring inhumane treatment, exploitation, and a denial of basic human rights. Slavery’s legacy has had lasting impacts on the social, economic, and political landscape of the nation.
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The US has engaged in military interventions and supported proxy wars in various countries, often driven by economic and geopolitical motivations. Examples include the Spanish-American War, the Vietnam War, and more recent conflicts in the Middle East. These actions have been criticized for their human rights implications and for perpetuating cycles of violence and instability.
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Rapid industrialization and economic growth has been accompanied by the exploitation of natural resources, both domestically and internationally. This has led to environmental degradation, displacement of local communities, and unequal distribution of wealth.
I would like to remind that it is just as important to note that these examples represent a dark chapter in America’s history and acknowledging them is essential for learning from past mistakes. The outcomes from these mistakes do not reflect or recognize the progress made over time and the diverse perspectives and contributions of individuals. It is also essential to acknowledge that the benefits derived from contributions in various fields do not justify or negate the historical injustices committed. The impact of genocide and exploitation cannot be dismissed or overlooked but recognizing and addressing historical wrongs is crucial for creating a better society overall. (This is an easter egg, i dont think you anti-US types read comments this long and love to do these exaggerated and stupid long strings) In my experience, i would say there are 3 things we can do as a community to rectify these injustices.
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Chill the fuck out and respectfully engage in critical reflection of policy decisions to ensure they align with principles of justice and respect. Just because we want to have a certain history represented does not mean we need to break society to get that message told. Nevertheless, we should seek to prioritize diplomacy, dialogue, and peaceful conflict resolution always regardless of the scenario. I do not think someone coming at me to berate on my inexperience or lack of knowledge is helpful.
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Help establish people into power to acknowledge wrongdoings done to marginalized groups. Theres a lot here, it will require effort for education and awareness into a variety of topics but again, dont shove it in our faces.
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Take steps to rectify economic exploitation by promoting fair trade practices, ethical investment, and responsible business conduct. Fight for transparency and accountability in multinational corporations’ operations to ensure that economic activities do not perpetuate exploitation or exacerbate inequalities. This goes hand in hand with step 2 on education.
Rectifying the past is an ongoing process that requires active commitment, introspection, and engagement with affected communities. We should avoid tokenizing measures just as much as imposing unilateral judgements and solutions.
TLDR: Grog think we big bad but grog big heart. Grog work hard, make we good. Also, dont forget to SMASH that like button. If im a good boy i can add a bunch of links so some kind stranger can give me reddit gold
Edit: holy shit thanks for gold kind stranger! Much fedora tippings to you
Edit: holy shit thanks for gold kind stranger! Much fedora tippings to you
Wut? Is this a reddit copy bot?
Yes it is me. An advanced AI from the future.
Edit: holy fuck i love reddit gold thanks frienderino
Edit2: my girlfriend just broke up with me so im sad
Edit3: all this attention from my fellow redditors is chearing me up
Edit4: ghejufbebsjdkcnf
I would like to remind that it is just as important to note that these examples represent a dark chapter in America’s history
You say that as if it has ended - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
- The colonization of America by European settlers resulted in displacement, mistreatment, and, in some cases, genocide of Native American tribes.
Only some cases? Unless you’re talking about ALL of the Americas, it was the vast majority
-
This is revisionist tripe. The real reason we were slow to enter the war was that doing so was hugely unpopular among the two largest ethnicities in the US; Irish-Americans and German-Americans, for very obvious reasons. There were other reasons as well, but it’s just a fact that Irish-Americans, many of whom would still have a living memory of the famine, were hostile towards the British, and German-speaking Americans, of whom there were millions, entire towns in fact, had no desire to go to war against Germany.
You leave this out because it’s not convenient to your narrative.
But American Exceptionalism
Stolen from another post felt relevant
Si vis pacem para bellum
Favorite DS9 episode
Let’s be honest here. That’s a good episode, and I’m not judging you. But Sisko KOing Q is easily the best moment in the show.
”I’m not PICARD.”
I dunno, it’s hard to top
“IT’S A FAAAAKE!”
Wars are won before they’re fought.
Still gonna go down swinging, giving up won’t fix anything
I didn’t hear no bell
Where is that original pic from
🌎 🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
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The Boston massacre was basically an anti-police riot that turned into a police shooting. The police were acquitted of the murder, which lead to more protests and an eventual revolution. Anytime someone says “real Americans support the police,” I point back to that.
The local police in the nearby “pieceful” (verry rich) subarb tend to portray themselves as “just folks helping out (we also enforce bylaws)”. the local city tends to have cops blatently break the law.
The antagonism is easy to see in the city. In the former, the former gives off a diffrent and hidden kind of oppression that Im in a position to only see the outer edge of (i dont live there).
Well put. I’d never thought of it that way.
That’s a complete load of bullshit and it’s sad people like you go through life thinking your fantasies are reality.
Here is wiki article, read to your hearts content, unless you think wikipedia is a load of fantasies as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre
points to Great Britain
I learned it from you
I have never seen the phrase “the tail wags the dog” used more aptly as with with the US-UK power dynamic
Yeah totally - wait which is the tail in your mind?
They feared that unchecked, the Colonial tail might someday wag the imperial dog (as indeed it has).
The full quote from https://readsettlers.org/ch2.html
And doubled on it
This tweet is banned in Texas and Florida.
Just because America hasn’t lived up to its values doesn’t mean that the values are wrong
Dude. Our constitution said black people were 3/5ths of a human.
Exactly, thanks for supporting my point.
Does it still? Or did we change the Constitution to better reflect our values?
I mean the constitution is the backbone of the system and it used to be updated, but now people treat it as this perfect monolithic unchanging thing. If any modern politician tryd to add amendments it would not go well(also Canadian here)
I agree with that. Thomas Jefferson had the right idea that the Constitution should be rewritten every generation to better reflect the people.
Maybe not that often, but certainly more than it is
Every generation sounds about right (maybe not completely rewritten, but with significant amendments).
One generation recognizes that if black people are free, they should vote. A couple generations later starts recognizing that women are people, not property, as well, and that they should have the right to vote. Then the next generation realizes that shenanigans are being used to keep people from voting, so they get make those things illegal. Then the next decides to establish 18-year-olds are adults, so they should be able to vote.
…and then they decided that things are great, gerrymandering is fine, skewing the voting to benefit the party in power should be within the powers of the states, and outright ignoring a public vote is perfectly reasonable in a democracy, so the constitution should be treated as a complete, unalterable document, since we apparently got it right now.
And that’s just voting. I definitely think we could use some changes based on this new generation (gender/orientation protection, voting rights, etc).
I’ve long thought that every amendment and major law needs an expiration date upon which time the current legislative body is forced to vote to uphold it or let it expire.
We shouldn’t have these because we have sanctified them, we should have them because we still believe in them. If we don’t believe in them anymore, they need to go.
Does it still say you’re allowed to use slavery for punishment as a crime? Do you still do that for non violent offenders? Does your country have more non violent offenders than any country to ever exist? Your country started with shit values and continues to push its shit values onto the rest of the world.
Why does everyone on here treat “non-violent” crime as though it isn’t still crime? Someone stealing my car is a “non-violent” crime, but it sure has a direct impact on my ability to make a living and to feed my family. Honestly, it’s more of a slap to my face than a literal slap to my face. The criminal has decided that my livelihood doesn’t matter as much as their desire to get high or hold down a job. They’re maliciously taking the things that I have spent my blood, sweat, and tears to acquire to better my lot in life, and you’re making excuses for their shitty behavior the entire time they do. You’re more interested in not holding them accountable than you are in protecting the people that they prey on. Shame on you.
Edit: A word
Robbery is a violent crime. Drug possession is a non violent crime. What a waste of a comment lol.
Don’t be stupid. Theft is a crime against property, whereas robbery is a crime against a person. Nowhere in my comment did I indicate robbery, but I’m sure you knew that. You’re purposely dismissing my comment by straw manning it. Someone taking my property with or without me being present is a crime and should be punished.
With slavery?
I invite you to fully read the chain of comments you replied to the start of
I invite you to study the history of your country, and it’s present day laws.
That’s an awfully broad topic compared to what I asked, what in particular?
It’s propaganda in contrast to its actions lmao
It was only enslaved people that were counted at 3/5ths. Free blacks were counted as a whole person.
From Wikipedia:
Although the three-fifths clause was not formally repealed, it was effectively removed from the Constitution. In the words of the Supreme Court in Elk v. Wilkins, Section 2 “abrogated so much of the corresponding clause of the original Constitution as counted only three-fifths of such persons [slaves].”
So it’s technically still in there, but moot with slavery being banned.
Slavery isn’t banned in the US lol
Is it only the 19th ammendment which allows it, or someplace else as well?
13th amendment
Changing the Constitution is the whole problem.
It desperately needs updating but it’s become this sacred text that cannot be changed and all future laws must be based on asinine interpretations of the ancient texts
Id argue the original document had awful clauses and every entry has at least one defect. Its so “sacred” that mistakes are costly. Still worth attempting, just a “you better know what your doing” situation.
caugh prisoners are not given protection under our anti-slavery ammendment, caugh and our prisons are kept full caugh
So our values can change over time? How do we know which values to live up to?
So our values can change over time?
What a strange question. Of course they can and they do, all the time.
Then what makes a value an American value?
Usually “country’s values” are something the state or the population publicly (claim to) hold. Another perspective is what others view as their values.
It’s not a clear cut thing at all. Americans often use terms like “freedom, liberty, democracy”, stuff like that so I’m thinking from their pov those are their values.
Money.
Money is the only truly American value, everything else can be discussed about depending on how much money is involved.
I use the Declaration of Independence’s preamble as a good baseline:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,—That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,…”
I see. So one of our values is given to us by a god. That’s what we have to live up to? A god’s values? That’s American? I don’t even believe in a god.
And why is the Declaration, something that happened before America existed as a nation, the thing to look to and not the Constitution?
You have a lot of catching up to do in school. The declaration and constitution heavily pull for Locke’s Treatises of Government and even older texts. It is not necessarily speaking to a god. In fact Locke brings up Spinoza in making this point. It is moreso that we exist in a universe that functions with certain parameters that are the baseline for our current situation. It’s very generalized. Basically, Locke’s philosophy, which was inherited by the framers of the declaration/ constitution/BoR was that civil society only exists as an agreement among people in order to better their quality of life. If it does not live up to these expectations, people can abandon government and go back to less civil times. Government helps prevent the breakdown of discourse with war being the ultimate opposite of civil society. Basically, the government exists by the people and for the people. The Declaration of Independence is an important founding document in US history for many different reasons, but one of them that is of importance is that is marks the foundation for a unified set of values that would be further codified in the follow-up documents. It was made very clear to all present that when the Constitution was drafted, it would have fast-follow amendments and then continue to in order to reflect the basic foundational values as society and technology progressed over time. This flexibility was intentionally added. The founding documents don’t speak much about the financial system. That came later.
I already asked this and insults won’t change it- If values change, what makes them American values? If the founding documents are where we get our values from, then our values include believing black people aren’t fully human.
Jefferson was an athiest too, and he wrote that text.
The Declaration of Independence is a statement of values, a list of the ways the Crown had violated those values, and a list of the ways they felt were proper to address those violations, up to and including armed revolt.
The Constitution was an attempt to make a goverment based on those values. It was and is flawed, and should be changed to better reflect those values. That’s why “What about the 3/5 Compromise?” isn’t a gotcha. It’s wrong, everyone knows it’s wrong, schoolchildren are taught it’s wrong by the government itself.
So it’s an American value in a founding document unless we think it’s wrong?
Of course, they change overtime, do you want to respect the rules written in the Old Testament?
We educate the people to free thinking, and then we ask them to vote, that’s how democracy is supposed to work. It’s not perfect, and it has ups and downs, but we do have made some progress considering the past centuries.No, I want to find out what American values we’re supposed to live up to, not what Iron Age Jewish values we’re supposed to live up to. What are they and what makes them American values?
I think they come from the European Humanism and Enlightenment, they are not American specific. Equality in rights and opportunities, social liberalism, economical liberalism, religious/origin tolerance, rationality, democracy.
What makes those our values? I don’t see anything in our founding documents that reflect things like equality in rights and opportunities or social liberalism or economic liberalism.
If you want to acknowledge religious tolerance as described in the Bill of Rights, you also have to acknowledge the 3/5ths compromise.
As far as rationality or democracy, those have never been American values.
There’s some overlap between the two.
I think what makes something some country’s values is either the government publicly adopting or enough of the population doing so. That doesn’t mean anyone is actually living up to those values. Might not even be trying.
And then there’s the question, their values from whose perspective? Americans might say thing X is their value but outsiders might look at them and conclude their value is Y. So there’s no one set of coherent values that hold true from all perspectives.
So if Trump wins and the government adopts fascism, those are American values?
technically it was your Supreme Court
No, it’s right in the Constitution. And the Supreme Court didn’t exist yet.
To be fair though, the 3/5ths compromise wasn’t about black people being 3/5ths of a human. Free states didn’t want to count enslaved persons for the population when determining representation in congress while Slave owning states wanted to count each slave as part of the population and thus have a higher representation in congress than they should.
By your argument the slave owning people were wanting to count black people as a human and the anti slavery people didn’t. If the free states had gotten their way then black people, by your assessment, wouldn’t have been counted as people at all but would have likely caused the emancipation of slaves much much earlier.
Our values are changing. The speaker of the House says that the separation of church and state does not exist. Second in line to the presidency.
Our history is being rewritten. Just look at the reinterpretation of the 2nd amendment after Reagan.
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2nd in line. Biden is literally the president. He is not “first in line to be president”. Harris is 1st in line and Johnson is 2nd in line.
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Not Americans. Republicans in congress. Americans did not pick Mike Johnson to preside over the House. Only a small percentage of Americans even voted for him because they had to be in his district. Americans are powerless to stop this.
And? All that has happened before.
Actual President William McKinley felt America had a duty to spread Christianity to the rest of the world.
And in my opinion Dred Scott is a much greater travesty of constitutional law.
Again, just because the country has failed to uphold its values does not mean that the values are worthless
it’s not the failure, it’s the repeating the same horrors again and again.
If we failed and did better that would be good, instead we fail and then change nothing or rearrange the chairs but not solve the problem.
Like take our school system for example, Brown v Board of Education, landmark case desegregate the schools problem solved right? No our schools are still heavily segregated and people like our president fought to keep it that way.
And somehow America’s the “upholder of moral values” and the world’s police
Well ofc they follow the super moral bible that is filled with things like how you can beat the shit out of your slaves as long as they dont die. And how its ok to kill babies because a dude said no to another dudw because god made him do it.
My favorite is the dude who offers his daughters to a mob to be raped so that they don’t rape the angel visiting him.
Truly a hero. After all daughters should always crave to be raped to death by angry gay men. Shame it was the maid instead
They wanted to fucking rape an angel
Completely understandable if you’re into eyes.
Eh, to be fair, America is still one of the best nations to be in that position.
Not really praising the US, more admonishing most other states.
Yeah, it’d be nice if Finland was the world police, but it could also be: China, Russia, Iran, Brazil, Mexico, Romania, Belarus, Somalia, etc etc.
As an illiterate American, I could not read that meme and it’s only by chance through random mashing of the keys that I was able to craft this response.
That’s another quantum physics marvel.
Want to see it again?
Source: average American student.
And the textbooks have been marginally sanitized even then.
If Americans told the truth*
They can read it was about taxes but they won’t get to read about the colonies being pissed about fair treatment to the Natives for their help in the 7 years war (fair is relative: read it as respecting their borders and claims to America)
Oh, so I’m the only one who gets in trouble when I start referencing Malcom X?
Nope.
Saddest thing among Americans is that they’ve been brainwashed into thinking they were the good guys in the revolution.
The revolution occurred because Britain took on a massive amount of debt to save Americans from the French and Natives. Britain wanted Americans to pay them back, but Americans just said ‘no’ and that’s how we began fighting for our independence.
Our ancestors are shitbags. Plain and simple. “Opportunity” and “laissez-faire” are so important to American culture because they revolve around the idea “if you can get away with it, do it.”
“The British defended their colony out of the kindness of their own heart and America was ungrateful” is… a take.
Well, it was their colony. I’m not sure where you’re getting the ‘kindness of their own heart’ from.
Probably because you’re biased and need to supplant legitimate arguments with ones that are easier for you to argue against.
The fact is that the colonies needed British help to win the French and Indian War. They got the help they needed and then decided they weren’t going to repay those who helped them. It was a shitty move supported by greedy scumbags who got to shape the rest of the nation in their image.
How about you try arguing with what’s actually said instead of supplanting it with what sounds nice in your head? You’d come across as less reddit-brained if you do so.
Yea, the funny thing is they were also shit to the people who helped them gain their independence afterwards like the French when the Americans argued their obligations were null and void once the aristocracy was overthrown.
Wow. What next? calling someone a nazi if they were even dare to acknowledge that Americans weren’t all that great during WWII what with dropping atomic bombs on schools?
Your brainwash game is deep.
Lol what a leap. Nah man, America is full of bad terrible shit and unfounded patriotism, but the revolution take is just a bad one.
Terrible shit like doing their own eugenics of sterilizing ‘unfit’ with an incredibly open definition of the word.
The only reason no one paid the price is everyone was looking over at the 6 million dead as 60k is just a drop in the bucket. They were after all, mainly going after POC. Which were defined as 1/5th of a human
So no. Not a leap.
So, in order, taxes evasion, war, secession, wars, racism, wars, poor labour laws, wars and racism again?
Seems to be a pattern
Joshua Fit For Battle - Contents Of An American History Class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP862vW9WJE
Relentless imperialistic fucks
Eye glassed with drugs of power and conquest
Greed kills
Establish a history relationship
And turn around and stab them in the back
Guns and disease destroyed a whole culture
Victims on their backs, rotting
Seeping, suffering
Suffering, suffering
Suffering
This is our fucking history
This is our fucking history
History repeats itself and always will
Thank you for transcribing the lyrics, because I couldn’t understand them in the first 30 seconds and I wasn’t willing to continue listening after that.
The message is good, the instrumentalists are proficient, but the vocals are painful. It was less “Rage Against The Machine” and more “Tantrum Against The Melody”.
Opens history book on Europe/Asia/Africa/South America, etc. insert literally any place in the world. Wow! I’m funny on Lemmy! So dumb, good people in every country in the world. And just about every country has done unspeakable things to get to where they are today. Most of the time it’s not because the good people even want to be involved it’s because the rich make it happen. Blame the rich…they are the problem in every country.
You’re not wrong, every country has done fucked shit. I think the point of this meme is to bring Americans down to that realisation that applies to their country too, tho.
With an insulting title like this post has, I don’t think that’s the point at all.
DAE the US in unaware of history!? Because I think I know what 300 million people are!
I was talking about the meme that OP posted, not the title OP gave it. I am assuming OP did not make the meme.
Everybody knows. There’s nothing new under the sun
I think the point of this meme is to bring Americans down to that realisation that applies to their country too
Because Americans don’t know? We get taught about this in school. If you want to find a country that buries its atrocities, try Japan
If your republicans get their way, kids won’t be taught about it in school in future. :P
I can’t imagine they don’t know.
Not all countries did as horrible things as America, at least not on the same scale
Lol yes they did go read a book you pot stirrer.
Most countries haven’t ethnically cleansed 99% of their original population
Um… you just haven’t gone back far enough.
No, I have. Genetics have barely changed since the Neolithic apart from the US
Uhhh how about rest of the Americas for a start
They haven’t changed much. Most people are still native with Spanish, Portuguese and African admixture
In all reality, the majority of Native Americans died from old world diseases brought over by Europeans prior to 1700, the idea of the modern American wouldn’t exist for at least 100 years by the time Europeans had killed most of the Natives.
Cortez’s arrival in Mexico killed ~20 million Natives in Mexico between 1520 and 1570. Prior to his arrival there were an estimated 22 million Natives in Mexico.
Contemporary estimates suggest that the USA population of Natives prior to the arrival of colonists was around 5-15 million. By 1800 that population had dropped to 600k.
So by the numbers it looks like Europeans killed ~90-99% of Natives Americans prior to 1800 and ~47-75% by 1600.
What the US did was deliberate and with the intent of eradicating natives, what others did was collateral damage
Also, where did you get the 20 millions number from? casualties were of 200k
Those are casualties from combat. My numbers were the resulting spread of disease
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_the_Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas
What the US did was deliberate and with the intent of eradicating natives, what others did was collateral damage
Care to point to something specific? Also, you wanna explain that collateral damage part a bit better?
The US is responsible for the deliberate murder of a lot of Native Americans, but even if we put the biological warfare aside, Europeans deliberately killed magnitudes more.
Collateral damage is dying due to the unintentional spread of diseases.
Deliberate damage is sending the natives cloths that have been intentionally infected, then killing off their main source of food, then wiping out entire groups and then claim the natives are the savages when they fight back, while there were rewards for hunting natives like they were wild animals, and then confining the remaining few in bantustans or as the US called them “reserves” (know what wildlife reserves are?) that are put in areas chosen to deprive them from enough resources and where alcoholism was instigated by the government as a way to keep them weak. The people who made all of this possible are now regarded as national heroes.
And no, not even the English killed as much as the US.
You’re right. They go to other countries to ethnically cleanse those populations.
Like where? Not even Israel has such a low number of natives
Woah, I didn’t know you were an expert on every single nation.
My apologies. Everyone, we’re in the presence of greatness. Bow your heads.
Which country dropped 2 nuclear bombs again? I always forget.
Singling out the US from WW2 seems odd. It was the one with Nazis, you know? Also during that war Japan did some absolutely despicable shit, like Nanjing massacre, there were the Nazis which, yeah no need to explain that one, USSR had their own massacres and “forced relocations” of peoples, there was the fascist Italy which at least in Africa did awful shit, Croatia had Ustaše and their own holocaust, Lithuania same deal, don’t remember off the bat what horrible shit Brits did but knowing Brits you know there’s something there, Finland had horrific prison camps for Soviet prisoners…
Looking at WW2 and coming to the conclusion that the US specifically is bad is weird. There’s so much fucked up shit done by almost everyone.
Also tbh I’ve never really understood what the big difference between using nukes and just bombing the absolute shit out of a population with conventional weapons is. Nowadays the difference is that you don’t want to trigger a nuclear exchange, but that wasn’t really a case then. One difference is that it’s new and different weapon, but that’s not very concrete. Radiation and lasting effects is more concrete, but also, unexploded shit manages to still kill people. You’ll have horrific after effects from conventional weapons too.
This is something I’ve never understood but would be glad if someone explains. It’s often just said as self-evident thing but I’ve never seen the argument spelled out. Might help me change my mind about it if someone does.
You have no intentions of changing your mind…
If you can’t tell the difference in “just bombing” and what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki… well that says more about you than anything else.
It’s sorta hard to learn about the argument or the difference when people outright refuse to spell it out.
If you can’t tell the difference in “just bombing” and what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki… well that says more about you than anything else.
Of course my opinion says things about me. But like I said, I don’t see the big difference to conventional weapons. That’s why I’m asking you to explain it to me ffs
What happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki wasn’t worse than Dresden, Tokyo, or several other bombings (especially Cambodia in the Vietnam war). They are notable in terms of being a nuke, but in terms of damage overall unremarkable.
This is my feeling too. With the number of killed and the destruction they caused they don’t seem that different from conventional weapons.
I’m not sure what makes the nukes worse and this guy just outright refused to even explain it to me since they didn’t feel likely they’d manage to convince me. Kinda infuriating, especially when I’m genuinely interested in understanding the argument.
A lot of focus is in those bombs and generally the complete destruction of conventional weapons is glossed over or even ignored. Especially when it was the allies targeting civilian infrastructure.
