Being bluntly honest. People who are neurodivergent can struggle with being “politely dishonest” and can tell you what they think in a very blunt manner without meaning to offend.
Not engaging in small talk. Again, people who are neurodivergent tend to prefer talking about things that fascinate them and can have a hard time understanding the point of talking about just whatever.
Struggling with being on time, struggling to focus on someone or something, struggling with eye contact. In general, neurodivergent traits tend to be seen as “asshole behavior” because they are abnormal and don’t conform to society. People who aren’t normal tend to be viewed as assholes because how dare they inconvenience me by being different.
Source: personal experience as well as listening to the experiences of others. I’ve been hit with all these things at least once and accused of being an asshole, aloof, and/or self-centered.
I find that struggling to be on time is fine, actually not being on time is disrespectful of my time. In modern society we have so many options available to make sure we can keep on time. Set up alarms, time how long it takes you to get dressed and out the door, time how long it takes you to get somewhere, set alarms to keep you on time based on what you’ve actually measured, not what one “feels” is enough time.
Personally I’m more often than not 5+ minutes early; I can always wait a little more before I go in or something, it’s often harder to “just get there faster”.
BTW; if someone is late because of something outside their control that’s fine; just make sure to inform me ASAP.
I think the core trait to look out for is willingness to work around personal issues. With time that might be an openness about your problems, at the very least. Maybe aiming for half an hour earlier, communicating status often and early.
Fucking up is human, but not trying your best not to fuck up is a dick move.
I tried that. I’ve tried alarms, I’ve tried timing myself, none of it works for me. I’m at the point where the steps I try to take to be on time are actually detrimental to my mental health. It’s why I’ve kinda given up on actually trying to be on time. It’s not that I don’t have respect for you, it’s that I need to have respect for myself. I was putting so much stress on myself that I wasn’t able to enjoy anything anymore. I was disconnecting myself from others because I was afraid of the fact that I couldn’t be on time and how they’d react to it. I legitimately, truly, cannot help it.
I get the feeling from your response that you’re not going to be happy and you’re going to tell me that I’m just lazy, or that I’m irresponsible or inconsiderate. I’m very used to it. Sorry.
Why would I bother with calling you lazy or irresponsible or inconsiderate? If you were someone I knew I just wouldn’t invite you to stuff after the first few times you don’t show up on time. Whether people don’t mean to be inconsiderate when showing up late doesn’t matter to me, it’s still not respecting my time and I simply don’t want to deal with that after a few times. But you are just a random person on the internet whose being on time or not does not affect me at all. But I don’t actually believe that you cannot help it at all. Doesn’t mean I’m going to argue about it, that’s your cross to bear and has no effect on me.
The solution for you might be to have all/most social stuff at your place so you don’t have to deal with getting somewhere at a specific time.
I think it’s important to bear in mind that some of those things are what neurotypical folks, I guess you could call them, use to convey interest or disinterest. Eye contact is a way to express interest, and helps to show one is intently listening to the speaker. Conversely, frequently glancing away is kind of the body language equivalent of giving short “uh huh” type answers when one is trying to disengage from a conversation.
My point isn’t that you should feel bad about struggling with these nuances; I just think it’s worth mentioning that some of those negative reactions you may have experienced just has to do with expectations in body language. It’s not that someone who’s neurodivergent is being an asshole, it’s just that they’re sending out signals we’re otherwise used to interpreting as disinterest, and that is (often) off-putting.
Again, it’s not something to feel bad about, it’s just communicating on different wavelengths so-to-speak. Sort of like a language/culture difference.
I would agree with you except that I’ve seen people try to clarify that they’re autistic, or ADHD, or bipolar, etc, and explain that it causes them to act in that manner and sometimes, no matter how hard they try, they can’t surpress it or “act normal”; only to be told overwhelmingly by the people in the room/thread that they’re an asshole and selfish for not trying hard enough.
I do understand that some of those things are used as visual indicators for people to determine how the other is feeling about the current conversation, and maybe it’s way more important to people than I realize; but there are way too many people who will tell you that if you can’t alter your behavior to be normal, then you’re an asshole.
Yeah, i can relate. Yesterday i empathized with people doing moral wrong stuff, saying that i can understand their logic. And than was acused that it would be my logic. That irrate me the whole night, but in the end it just was my brutal honesty and a lack of black and white thinking.
But yeah, it hurts when people missread that. I hope you doing good :)
Being bluntly honest. People who are neurodivergent can struggle with being “politely dishonest” and can tell you what they think in a very blunt manner without meaning to offend.
Not engaging in small talk. Again, people who are neurodivergent tend to prefer talking about things that fascinate them and can have a hard time understanding the point of talking about just whatever.
Struggling with being on time, struggling to focus on someone or something, struggling with eye contact. In general, neurodivergent traits tend to be seen as “asshole behavior” because they are abnormal and don’t conform to society. People who aren’t normal tend to be viewed as assholes because how dare they inconvenience me by being different.
Source: personal experience as well as listening to the experiences of others. I’ve been hit with all these things at least once and accused of being an asshole, aloof, and/or self-centered.
I find that struggling to be on time is fine, actually not being on time is disrespectful of my time. In modern society we have so many options available to make sure we can keep on time. Set up alarms, time how long it takes you to get dressed and out the door, time how long it takes you to get somewhere, set alarms to keep you on time based on what you’ve actually measured, not what one “feels” is enough time.
Personally I’m more often than not 5+ minutes early; I can always wait a little more before I go in or something, it’s often harder to “just get there faster”.
BTW; if someone is late because of something outside their control that’s fine; just make sure to inform me ASAP.
I think the core trait to look out for is willingness to work around personal issues. With time that might be an openness about your problems, at the very least. Maybe aiming for half an hour earlier, communicating status often and early. Fucking up is human, but not trying your best not to fuck up is a dick move.
I tried that. I’ve tried alarms, I’ve tried timing myself, none of it works for me. I’m at the point where the steps I try to take to be on time are actually detrimental to my mental health. It’s why I’ve kinda given up on actually trying to be on time. It’s not that I don’t have respect for you, it’s that I need to have respect for myself. I was putting so much stress on myself that I wasn’t able to enjoy anything anymore. I was disconnecting myself from others because I was afraid of the fact that I couldn’t be on time and how they’d react to it. I legitimately, truly, cannot help it.
I get the feeling from your response that you’re not going to be happy and you’re going to tell me that I’m just lazy, or that I’m irresponsible or inconsiderate. I’m very used to it. Sorry.
Why would I bother with calling you lazy or irresponsible or inconsiderate? If you were someone I knew I just wouldn’t invite you to stuff after the first few times you don’t show up on time. Whether people don’t mean to be inconsiderate when showing up late doesn’t matter to me, it’s still not respecting my time and I simply don’t want to deal with that after a few times. But you are just a random person on the internet whose being on time or not does not affect me at all. But I don’t actually believe that you cannot help it at all. Doesn’t mean I’m going to argue about it, that’s your cross to bear and has no effect on me.
The solution for you might be to have all/most social stuff at your place so you don’t have to deal with getting somewhere at a specific time.
I think it’s important to bear in mind that some of those things are what neurotypical folks, I guess you could call them, use to convey interest or disinterest. Eye contact is a way to express interest, and helps to show one is intently listening to the speaker. Conversely, frequently glancing away is kind of the body language equivalent of giving short “uh huh” type answers when one is trying to disengage from a conversation.
My point isn’t that you should feel bad about struggling with these nuances; I just think it’s worth mentioning that some of those negative reactions you may have experienced just has to do with expectations in body language. It’s not that someone who’s neurodivergent is being an asshole, it’s just that they’re sending out signals we’re otherwise used to interpreting as disinterest, and that is (often) off-putting.
Again, it’s not something to feel bad about, it’s just communicating on different wavelengths so-to-speak. Sort of like a language/culture difference.
I would agree with you except that I’ve seen people try to clarify that they’re autistic, or ADHD, or bipolar, etc, and explain that it causes them to act in that manner and sometimes, no matter how hard they try, they can’t surpress it or “act normal”; only to be told overwhelmingly by the people in the room/thread that they’re an asshole and selfish for not trying hard enough.
I do understand that some of those things are used as visual indicators for people to determine how the other is feeling about the current conversation, and maybe it’s way more important to people than I realize; but there are way too many people who will tell you that if you can’t alter your behavior to be normal, then you’re an asshole.
Man, I’m sorry to hear that’s your experience. I guess some folks simply refuse to be understanding.
I mean, if somebody thinks you should alter your behavior for them and they shouldn’t do the same, then they are confidently an asshole.
Not to be mistaken for “tough love,” the concept that manipulative people will often use to defend their coercive verbal assaults on their targets.
Yeah, i can relate. Yesterday i empathized with people doing moral wrong stuff, saying that i can understand their logic. And than was acused that it would be my logic. That irrate me the whole night, but in the end it just was my brutal honesty and a lack of black and white thinking.
But yeah, it hurts when people missread that. I hope you doing good :)