The US’s resistance stems from concerns that a global wealth tax might deter investment, prompt capital flight, and potentially impede economic growth.
’ We are to selfish to impose such a thing, here’s our pretend stance on why; We will refuse to invest if you force us to help humanity. ’
Capital flight? To where? The fucking moon?
2-6% is a joke when the rest of the population is paying >25% up to 50% or more in some places.
in brazil we are paying 100% in some cases. not income, of course, but some goods are twice as expensive for us to obtain as they should because of crazy taxation.
meanwhile our rich pay among the lowest taxes in the world (they pay zero tax in some investments). shit even when tax is due, some of our richest won’t pay it and get away with it. (thanks, neymar!)
this shit is egregious and has to end.
If you would have read the article, you would have noticed it’s a wealth tax, not an income or gains tax.
What does that matter? 2% of a billion is 20 million. Do you seriously think their wealth doesn’t grow by at least 20 million a year? Do you think their wealth doesn’t grow by more than 2% every year? It should not be growing, it should be diminishing!
I’ll repeat myself: 2-6% is a fucking joke.
To be fair though, it’s not nothing (unlike the USA). They have to start somewhere, I’ll give 'em that.
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They’re going to take everything they can, in every way they can, whether or not they’re taxed the 2%. Don’t act like this is going to be their motivation for sticking it to the little guy.
Wealth taxes have been tried and later rescinded. They are extremely hard to administer for rich people. They usually have their wealth tied up in assets, not cash. Valuing those assets is itself expensive. What is a painting worth? Their entire stock portfolio? It is much easier to tax money as it moves through capital gains, income, and estate taxes.
The fact that even this largely performative measure is being opposed by the US makes it pretty clear that no real action will be possible under the current regime.
Okay, and how is that a rebuttal? Wealth taxes cost a large amount to administer and don’t provide much revenue. Any tax should be weighed against its side effects. If a type of tax has a history of being mainly performative with little revenue, what’s the case for swallowing the side effects?
Again, it’s much easier to tax wealth as it moves because typically that movement involves putting a value on it. Estate taxes also require appraising the value of assets, but they are literally once in a lifetime.
I’m not rebutting that wealth taxes don’t really work. I’m saying that even this performative measure is not palatable to the oligarchs, then obviously any serious measure won’t be either.
If they won’t accept bloodletting to release the bad humors, then surely they won’t accept acetaminophen for a headache?
It’s bad policy. Many countries have experimented with it and given up. Others like the UK looked at it and couldn’t find a way to make it worth the administration cost to begin with. There is simply no excuse for enacting known bad policy, and no amount of blaming things on oligarchies is going to get around that.
Oh hey, I remember how this guy Sanders was proposing a lot of good and sensible policies with his green new deal idea. How’d that work out?
Mixed. Quite a few policies have been passed into law as part of the “Inflation Reduction Act” (which was more geared toward climate change action). Then the bipartisan infrastructure bill finally had some halfway decent funding for rail instead of scraps. Still not enough, but it’s a start. The Biden administration set a goal of making the power industry net zero by 2035 and the US net zero by 2050. Not as good as is ideal, but the Green New Deal had some policy effects. That’s just kind of how things usually work, you throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.
The inflation reduction act is a perfect example of an idiotic policy that failed to achieve either reducing inflation, which is still climbing, or making any impact in terms of reducing emissions. In fact, U.S. fossil fuel production was reaching new highs in 2023 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=50978
Then the bipartisan infrastructure bill finally had some halfway decent funding for rail instead of scraps.
And what are the tangible effects of this bill?
The Biden administration set a goal of making the power industry net zero by 2035 and the US net zero by 2050.
Once again, tangible results point in the opposite direction here as seen above. And now US is criminally putting tariffs on Chinese solar panels and EVs in a middle of a climate crisis to make things worse.
That’s just kind of how things usually work, you throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.
All the policies that have been passed do have a common theme though. What has happened consistently during Biden admin is that the oligarchs have increased their wealth substantially while the working majority became more poor. The purpose of the system is what it does.
if third party sites can come up with someone’s net worth without access to any tax returns/financial data, I’m sure the US government can do the same. Honestly they could just give a broad estimate and if its wrong have the taxee fight it with the data proving its wrong. The system for this already exists on tax forms. The administrative costs part of the argument seems really weird, it’s not like the US is like most other established governments and gives a bill/check. It requires citizens to calculate their own taxes so they technically don’t even need to do the math outside a simple “does this look right? ah probally” or audits
Those are estimates based on published data that are often wildly inaccurate. Taxation would need real numbers. The way that things have typically worked in the past is that taxees self-report their assets, which leads to widespread cheating.
widespread cheating is still a net plus though, worst case scenario they pay less taxes then needed, but any non-zero number would be money that otherwise wouldn’t have been recieved. Actual calculations can be done on audits so if someone sends something in that is drastically different than what you would expect it should be then they can do the actual calculation but for the most part estimates should work fine for that matter.
The way I see it a 5 to 10% variance in what is actually owed isn’t going to mean much in the long run, and if a number is submitted that does raise eyebrows, which would be easy to implement just based off what their annual income(which is already reported) is versus what their reported assets are, a more in-depth calculation can be done
2% isn’t enough. If that’s all you probably will just get capital flight.
The proposal is for a globally-levied tax. Where exactly is capital going to fly to?
DPRK, they dont have income tax
Confused libertarian noises
If they could get totally global coordination to work, sure. Every single nation signing up is a pipe dream though. If that’s how the proposal was actually written it was never intended to pass.
Capital flight only exists where it is allowed to exist. It is possible and, in fact, advisable to have laws allowing for the seizure of assets in such a scenario.
At that point you’re not talking about 2% anymore, though, so it’s not really relevant here.
No, the 2% is for the ones who obey the law, and is enforced with something more like 100% for those who break the law.
Why not just 100% across the board?
That depends on if you do or do not want to fight a global revolutionary war against the bourgeoisie, since they would never allow such a thing to succeed in their liberal republics
But you do, so what’s the problem?
It’s countless layers of hypotheticals away from reality and I think recommending bourgeois governments liquidate their bourgeoisie is silly in the way that, in medieval times, recommending the kings of the world abolish noble titles and the monarchy is silly, you aren’t going to get these institutions to just kill themselves. What I support is the proletariat, by reason of having class antagonism with the bourgeoisie, fighting a war against the former’s control of the state.
What do you support?
to where? we are the biggest market in south america. good luck abandoning it because of a measly 2% tax.
i wish their capital would fly, we would probably take over that fucking space ourselves and do a better fucking job.
What this means in practice, is that someone will make a billion dollars in Brazil, and then move and spend it all elsewhere, so they can continue becoming richer. This is bad for Brazil, since developing is expensive.
I think a hard cap would be better.
I agree, a 2% tax is barely anything and would only be just slightly better than absolutely nothing.
someone will make a billion dollars in Brazil, and then move and spend it all elsewhere
they do exactly that already. most of our oligarchs hate their own country and spend most of their time (and money!) in europe or something. really gross people in general.
You could secretly take 90% and I’m convinced they wouldn’t even notice in their day to day
Lol, probably. You just have to get their accountants in on it.
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The US is burning down and now they are trying to drag the rest of the world down with them.
Until they learn the Republican party is bought and paid for by Russia to destroy the country they are in for a rough time.
It’s absolutely hilarious to see blueAnon types continue trotting out their Russiagate conspiracy theory. Americans are absolutely incapable of owning what their own political system is doing, and always have to blame the rest of the world for their problems. It’s a nation of petulant children.
Replying with a bunch of debunked Russian propaganda to dismiss Russian interest in steering US policy seems like putting your head in the sand. You are so far down the rabbit hole of misinformation that I hope you are able to make it back to reality at some point down the road.
And good luck in the future, I’m done with this thread as I’m not going down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and misinformation.
The only debunked propaganda here is from US as detailed by the articles I linked. Every country has interest in influencing other countries, there’s nothing special here. However, the idea that Russia in particular has disproportionate influence on US politics is absolutely laughable. The fact that you can’t see that you’re the conspiracy theorist in this thread is really just a cherry on top.
Funny enough, I just watched a video about this topic last night.
Jordan Klepper Fingers the Pulse: Moscow Tools (FULL SPECIAL) The Daily Show
This is the narrative that US propagandists have been pushing since 2016. Yet, the actual evidence available says something different
- https://jacobin.com/2020/04/russiagate-christopher-steele-dossier-trump-election
- https://jacobin.com/2023/01/hillary-clinton-russian-bots-2016-presidential-election-trump
- https://archive.ph/VKOrp
If people in US were serious about political interference, then they’d be worrying about corporate interference and how Israel is openly buying politicians.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Jordan Klepper Fingers the Pulse: Moscow Tools (FULL SPECIAL) The Daily Show
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
This sounds like recycled Cold War I hysteria. How much Democratic party Kool-Aid have you drunk?
First of all, where did Russia get so many US dollars from that they were able to outbid all of their US petit bourgeois and corporate competitors in buying the US Republican Party?
- IT Pro: Cambridge Analytica models were exaggerated and ineffective, [UK Information Commissioner’s Office] claims
- Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
- Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
- Washington Post: FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
- Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
- Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
- Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
- Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
- MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
- Jeff Gerth at Columbia Journalism Review on Russiagate: Editor’s Note | Part one | Part two | Part three | Part four
- Matt Taibbi: WMD, Part II: CIA “Cooked The Intelligence” To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
- Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
How’s that work when yellen is from Biden
