Well that is going to be bad for everyone. Looks like we’re headed back to science denial, tax credits for the rich, program cancellations for the poor, a weak fed that ignores the marginalized, bitcoin for some reason, deregulation, attacks on democracy, and just a general attitude of government by bumper sticker skeleton middle finger.
I remember when PP was in government, they weren’t good days, but I guess Trudeau has been in for so long that the list of true and imagined grievances is going to sink him and the rest of us with him.
Don’t forget increased intentionally fucking over BC.
• Harper and PPs complete capitulation on the softwood lumber agreement to the US, multiple times decimated rural BC.
• They moved harbour control for the 2nd busiest port on the west coast of the Americas, out of Vancouver and have them remotely operating out of Comox.
• They illegally forced the TMX expansion pipeline through, and overrode concerns of the city of Hope that the new line runs over their watershed and they ignored native issues with the pipeline. Note that it doesn’t run over Nestles well. They moved the line for fucking Nestle, not a city of people though.
• They shut down the coast guard facility for the Vancouver harbor and forced them to operate out of Richmond. So in the recent issue of a boat running into a seaplane, where the coast guard took under 10 minutes to respond, if Trudeau had not repurchased and opened the facility, their response time would have been in the range of 40 minutes to an hour.
Not to mention a return to “balancing” the budget by selling off assets to developer friends and scandals like taking the G8 security budget and using it for graft and bribery in your own ridings.
BC doesn’t exist, as far as the Cons are concerned. Western Canada is Alberta (and sometimes Saskatchewan), and Eastern Canada is Ontario.
No, Saskatchewan also doesn’t exist. We get very little from the feds, for two reasons:
- We never vote Liberal, so they do little to earn our vote.
- We always seem to vote Conservative, so they do little to earn our vote.
When good things happen it’s because of a unicorn like Ralph Goodale. The NDP could have a fighting chance for a few seats here, but they need to actually campaign and realise that they’re #2 in nearly every riding in the province.
There was a time when Saskatchewan was soley led by the CCF/NDP for 20 years straight (beginning with the father of universal health care, Tommy Douglas, in '44), then 8 yrs of PCs, then Blakeney (NDP) for another 9 years.
Yup, all true, but even then Saskatchewan largely voted PC federally. Very strange political mix.
Don’t forget Harper selling the Wheat Board to Bunge Limited and the Saudi Agricultural and Livestock Investment Company, so profits were privatized instead of being shared by all the farmers.
Wait till you realize that not only is PP bad, but so is Trudeau and Singh. And please don’t mention Maxime. That guy is a anti-vax nutjob.
What we do realize is that this “both sides” bullshit is the biggest thing pushed by Russian spammers right now, because their goal is to elect someone better for Putin.
But carry on.
It has to do with scale.
PP is exponentially worse than Trudeau and Jasmeet. Yes, neither of those two silver spoon assed motherfuckers worked a day in their life for where they are and combined can’t lead their way out of a wet paper bag, but I’ll take them over the mentally ill religious zealot.
I’ll take slightly curdling milk in my cereal over piss, thanks.
Perhaps the NDP shouldn’t have hitched their horse to the Liberal bandwagon. The fact that they’re showing so poorly is just as mind boggling as the Liberals losing this seat.
I’m happy the NDP has worked with the LPC over this last parliament. Together they’ve made a number of significant policy changes that I am quite happy with.
The orange steering the reds hand over fist has given us things you will never realize if you don’t actually look at things ever.
Like what? Half baked drug and dental plans that barely anyone is eligible is for?
Now would be a great time for the federal NDP to have a leadership race. A year until next election. Singh is past his prime. Get some free press.
Singh never had a prime.
Dude moved himself into one of the safest NDP ridings in the country and still almost lost it.
Unfortunately it seems obvious that PP and his party will win with a majority government. And as an autistic LGBTQ person who already experiences real hate from people in my small town, I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t scared.
As a middle-aged, cis, hetero, mostly neuro-typical guy living in Calgary - I see you, I value you, and I care about you. I can’t pretend to understand what your life is like - but you deserve every bit as much happiness and support as anyone else.
Thank you, I appreciate comments like this so much. I hope you have a wonderful day.
My hope is that this will give the Liberal party the courage to look for new leadership. Trudeau was great when he started, but a decade in the spotlight has worn him down and tainted his brand (fairly or unfairly).
The Liberals under Trudeau are trying to get elected on a platform of ‘more of the same’ when a lot of Canadians are unhappy. A new leader, with a new vision and a solid platform could have a fighting chance against PP. But under Trudeau the party feels like they’ve given up.
One of the first things Trudeau did as Prime Minister was break the top-line platform promise that got him elected - he promised Canadians that the 2015 federal election would be the last one under the first past the post system. So I’d say from the standpoint of democracy, he had an absolutely horrible start.
Of course he went on to reap the benefits of the imbalanced first past the post system for two subsequent federal elections, one of which he called unnecessarily during the pandemic in order to consolidate power for his party.
I think him and his party have been vaporware since day one.
Yep. I will never vote for him again for this reason. I used to vote strategically based on my current riding, but I’m just straight NDP now.
This was a concrete and clear promise, and he 100% broke it and didn’t even try. The Liberal candidate would have basically always been my 2nd choice in a ranked system.
Now they get nothing. I hope it was worth it.
Yup, haven’t voted liberal since he bathed in the applause of thousands, then flipped us all the bird when he got into office.
and he 100% broke it and didn’t even try
He actually did try. He wanted Ranked Choice but when feedback came for proportional, he ran away.
RoC: votes conservatives.
QC: BLOC MAJORITAIRE
See you at the next sovereignty debate.
Can’t wait for Quebec and Alberta to leave Canada. Will be flying the Canadian flag around Toronto that day.
Oh, they can leave whenever they want. As per any rental agreement, make sure to leave it how you found it or we’ll sue ya for repairs.
No, you don’t get the land; just your freedom from healthcare. Go.
Given the location of this voting district which straddles some very nice neighbourhoods (and some middle-class ones), I’m not surprised this turned conservative.
… you’ve got to be the only person then. Even the CPC is surprised they won.
Also, your excuse makes no sense. What’s your reasoning for the previous Liberal massive success in thus riding? They’ve regularly been getting ~50% or more of the vote and even won by a healthy margin in 2011 when the party was soundly defeated from coast-to-coast… Do you think all the rich people moved in within the last couple of years?
Hello? The average income of this district is twice that of the province, and of the city. Half the residents live in the wealthy neighbourhoods in the district. This is our 1%. Inflation doesn’t impact them. Higher capital gains tax does. The other half are in apartment buildings along yonge in mid-town. Fashionable and desirable area. The north boundary of district is called “young and eligible”. Rising cost of homes impact their home ownership aspirations. Some of these apartment dwellers have swung to cons. Libs have fucked up big time.
So you’re suggesting that Trudeau Liberal policies were somehow preferred in this area by massive margin in 2015, 2019 and 2021 but aren’t now, with the only real policy change that negatively affects these people is capital gains?
Quite honestly, I’ll be surprised if this riding remains CPC during the next federal election. My gut instinct is that there’s probably a small contingent of ABC voters who had planned on staying home during the next election but now that reality has hit they’ll come out. And this margin was so narrow it’ll flip here.
BLOC MAJORITAIRE
The unpopularity of Trudeau has caused this.
Yep.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Conservative candidate Don Stewart has won the longtime federal Liberal stronghold of Toronto-St. Paul’s, a stunning result that raises questions about Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s future.
The Liberals’ poor showing in a stronghold like this could prompt some soul-searching for Trudeau, who has seen his popularity plummet as inflation, the cost of living crisis, high home prices and surging immigration levels drive voter discontent.
David Coletto, chair and CEO of Abacus Data, said he believes the Liberals need to win by 10 points or more to give Trudeau a credible path forward.
Speaking to CBC News from Stewart’s election night party before any results were released, Byrne said Toronto-St. Paul’s “will probably stay on the Liberal side of things.”
The NDP candidate, Amrit Parhar, struggled to make much of a mark with about 11 per cent of the vote in Toronto-St. Paul’s — a worse performance than what the party achieved in the last general election.
The agency said it was bogged down because there were dozens of candidates on the unwieldy, nearly metre-long ballot — some of whom are proportional-representation activists running as a protest to the country’s first-past-the-post voting system.
The original article contains 942 words, the summary contains 190 words. Saved 80%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
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Thinking that NDP voters want a CPC government is a fucking conservative fantasy.
Let’s bear in mind that Trudeau handed this win to the CPC by repeatedly failing to pass any kind of voting reform - the CPC will never be able to win a majority vote among Canadians.
You only need 30% of the vote to get a majority government in Canada
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That allows the people to get their hate out, and resets the playing field for the next election cycle when people realize the Conservatives haven’t done shit all to make life more affordable.
Traditionally this hasn’t been how Canadian politics has played out. We tend to have long running federal governments over single term governments except in cases of extremely disastrous political results (ie. forcing an early election by a vote of non-confidence, etc…)
Canadian voters seem to be very very patient. It won’t matter how shitty PP and the Cons are as a government, voters will keep on electing them in for a decade or more before finally having enough. Same as we did with the Liberals, and same as we did with Harper before that.
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The problem remains: Who else have they got?
Mark Carney, apparently. I thought he was still Governor of the Bank of England, but he went on to work for Brookfield and Bloomberg and is now being talked about as a likely successor to Trudeau. Perhaps Canada will follow a few years behind the UK. Some seemingly endless years of thorough mismanagement by the increasingly delusional Conservatives, followed by a nominally left-wing party lurching to the right to occupy the conservative but slightly less-insane position the Tories once held.
I mean when you have NDP voters who would rather have a Con win than the liberals…
Maybe they’re NDP voters who hate what’s happening to this country under the Liberals and possess the conviction to vote for what they actually believe in.
What I see is 5k NDP and Greens voters who would rather see a conservative MP having the seat than make sure it’s someone fairly progressive in place.
Oh and enough people that voted for fake independents to make a point in favor of electoral reform to make a party that has always been against electoral reform take the seat.
It’s not a fucking proportional system, vote strategically you idiots!
What I see is a need for Ranked Choice Voting, but the Liberals don’t want to do that because they benefit from the current quasi-duopoly. But it is a necessary evolution
Edit: I think its pretty clear they benefit. Lotta would-be NDP voters who happen to fall into this dilemma of not wanting a Conservative government so they hold their nose and vote Liberal just until the next “less-pivotal” election that just never comes
Just a note, Liberals wanted a ranked system, STV, but the NDP and CPC outvoted them on the ER committee and effectivly killed it.
Provincially or Federally?
Federally. STV has been a long standing LPC policy (I should know, I held a policy position for the LPC for more than 6 years). It was their preferred choice during the ER committee, but the NDP and CPC banded together to kill it reccomending vague PR and a referendum instead.
So why are we still stuck with FPTP?
Well the short answer is politics.
The long answer is that when we had the opportunity to make a change, during the ERRE committee time period Trudeau was extremely concerned with presenting himself not just as a Harper alternative (IE a “Not Harper PM”) but as fundamentally different from him. Harper had tight, party whipped votes and was known for being very singular in purpose, he got done what he set out to do like it or not (And I did not). Harper did not collaborate he pushed everyone around. On the other hand, despite having a majority government Trudeau set out to govern more with consensus and collaboration, even going so far as to, under some pressure, give up majority control on the ERRE committee at the request of the NDP, making the committee proportional (this decision proved to be fatal to ER).
It was in that committee where all parties essentially refused to budge on their positions and would not negotiate with the LPC to pass recommendations that the LPC could get past both the house (in a free vote) and the senate (which was much more conservative in 2016). The NDP wanted PR so bad, and STV/Ranked Ballots so little, that they sided with the CPC who wanted to kill the entire thing with referendums instead of working with the LPC to get some change through. The result was recommendation that absolutely had no chance of passing the house, and if implemented no chance of passing the senate, and even if passed through both would not have resulted in reform before the next election as a referendum killed that idea entirely.
So rather than act like Harper would have, and use his majority to push through STV over the objections of the other parties, Trudeau chose to drop it. Instead focusing efforts on things he could pass, like the Elections Modernization Act of 2018 and the removal of senators from caucus.
Where does that leave us? What’s the path forward?
Also, isn’t it possible Trudeau knew that leaving things open to consensus would doom the effort and did so as a matter of RealPolitik? It just seems so convenient that the blame could be diffused in that way when, at the time, they held all the cards…
I was one of those strategic voters and I was promised by the Liberals that they were going to have the “last election under first past the post”. That didn’t happen so I decided I am done being dragged into supporting a party that constantly fails to deliver the things I believe in. What I don’t understand is seeing how the Liberals are getting demolished at the polls, why isn’t the new strategic vote to go NDP to stop the Conservatives? They aren’t that far behind the Liberals. 🤷
Whats happening with Pharmacare and Dentacare btw haha? Are those still chugging along?
Pharmacare should be in place by April 2025, health minister says and Canada’s dental care plan started almost 2 months ago..
Do try to keep up to date.
Pretty much anything would be better than what we have, in the meantime we need to vote strategically or we end up with the Conservatives which just makes things even worse.
The problem is they’re just going to say that every election without feeling the need to change their position and intentions towards it forever. People and institutions won’t change if they have every incentive to not change and no disincentives to the status quo.
It sucks but this is going to be an even bigger issue with the rise of the far-right populism and extremism and all the Liberals care about is playing the same stupid games that allow Conservative governments to stochastically form majority governments with less than a majority of the populations consent
No, you don’t get to blame third party when this riding was overwhelmingly Liberal for 30 years. Plus, the margin of victory was so small that they didn’t even need strategic voters to win it themselves.
This was a de facto referendum on Trudeau himself, and he would be wise to take heed of this warning.
Cut your nose to spite your face
You’re angry at Trudeau? Fine. Get PP in power and see how things go for you, I’m sure the majority of people who think like you are the ones who will suffer the most under a conservative government. You do you, I’m a white man with a good job that owns a house and I’m still trying to improve things for those who aren’t as privileged instead of thinking about myself and voting for lower taxes and less services for those in needs, maybe you should do the same.
Hah, I don’t care about Trudeau (and certainly don’t want to sleep with him like some of the more vocal fans), and lose either way as an NDP supporter. The entitlement to other parties’ votes is laughable. You’re bothered by the vote splitting? Perhaps electoral reform would help with that (I would’ve even accepted the ranked choice system that the Liberals proposed back in 2015, but even that didn’t materialize).
The NDP will only have a real shot at power if the Liberals crash and burn, similar to the provincial NDP (but fuck Andrea Horwath for wasting her party’s chance).
As for dealing with a conservative PM, well, I’ll be fine, but he’s still going to drag the country backward on climate policy. I hope y’all are rich enough to handle the rising costs of climate change (which will continue to rise even if Poilievre axes the carbon tax in total denial)
It’s not only about climate change though and it’s not only about you being fine. People thought the same way you do and got Trump elected and now abortion is getting banned all over the USA, but hey, at least some progressives can say they didn’t vote for Hillary out of principle?
You aren’t comparing Poilievre to Trump are you? Despite my misgivings with Milhouse, he is a regular political opportunist (though like Doug Ford, that can still cause problems for people). Swinging to the opposite extreme and making him sound like the antichrist erodes any chance of honest discussion we have with more moderate fiscal conservatives (the social conservative crazies that want to ban abortion will live in their own world no matter what).
You have a fair point about people displaying their privilege when saying they can tolerate a lost election. I know others don’t have that luxury, but I’m not saying ignore everything, or don’t vote. The climate is a wedge issue that affects everybody world wide, regardless of their political affiliation (or lack of), which is why I emphasized it.
This discussion started because of a comment supporting strategic voting, and extrapolated consequences and value judgments from there. It’s an issue with the electoral system that requires electoral reform.
He might not ban abortion, but he already said he’s ready to use article 33 to bypass the supreme Court on prison terms for violent crimes and when he starts feeling pressure from the social conservatives in his party and he’s facing the possibility that they’ll jump ship, you can be sure social issues won’t be a priority to him, even if it’s just cutting funding here and there so he indirectly ends up closing abortion clinics or homeless shelters.
I don’t disagree with that. Poilievre won’t want to burn political capital on this issue and would much rather neglect these services, even if it’s fiscally irresponsible to saddle future governments with the bill for cleaning these messes up. Yea, it is exhausting to watch important services degrade day by day.
But once again, this only underscores the need to establish electoral reform so that a plurality of 40% will never again grant the Conservatives a majority government with which they can sledgehammer our institutions.
What I see is 5k NDP and Greens voters who would rather see a conservative MP having the seat than make sure it’s someone fairly progressive in place.
It’s called having integrity. Although I largely don’t agree with their politics, I am proud of the 5k NDP and Green for being uncompromising in their values.
ABC voters have no commitment to ideals or integrity, they’d vote for the likes of Stalin and Mao if it meant keeping a conservative out of office.
Don’t have much integrity if you make decisions that will mean the people you want to protect will suffer even more just because you want to be able to say you sticked to your guns.
Who cares. No party is going to fix our country at this point. Canadians are just too complacent with everything our government has done. And PP will be no different.
[both sides]
- There is a difference
- When you don’t see a difference and feel like not voting, understand this is a calculated effect by the party who most benefits from your non-vote
- That party isn’t your friend
- Always vote the party who can best deliver on the least-worse plan for even the non-rich people in the country. And repeat. Force an evolution.
In your opinion: What should be done?
