I am actually ok with cheaters, because the alternative is installing a frickin malware.
This is a controversial opinion
Literally!
Yeah, cheaters bother me way less than some random program with root level access able to monitor everything it wants
right there with ya brother
Wait does it seriously need manual removal?
I guess I can just delete the wine prefix folder but still! This should be illegal. When I uninstall the game I don’t want to have the most intrusive part of it still installed on my system.Man I hate to ask this, but what exactly is anti-cheat? I’m guessing it’s not self-explanatory or it is but comes with some sort of baggage.
Anti-cheat is software made to prevent cheating. In order for it to be effective, you basically have to surrender control of everything in your computer to the Anti-cheat software and just trust that they won’t fuck you using that.
Last year for example, an Anti-cheat software got hacked and it installed cheats into player’s computers.
No all anti-cheat is something that you need to install. Some anticheat solutions run on the game’s servers and analyse player movement to detect common cheats. Those are the ones you don’t need to be angry about.
Anticheat is software that tries to identify cheating while you’re running a game. Kernel level anti cheat is malware.
I’m being a bit vague here because where it is now is the result of decades of arms race between the cheaters and the developers, thus extremely complicated.
It’s a program that sits on your machine, and watches both the game in question, as well as other programs, to make sure there’s no funny business regarding the game.
It’s somewhat effective, though it comes at a cost. There is a noticeable performance cost on modern anticheat programs, meaning you’re losing performance for sometimes no tangible benefit.
Kernal level anti cheat programs are especially invasive, as they have deeper access to your operating system than would normally be allowed by any other program. This can be fine when used correctly, but if abused could be a massive privacy concern, or even a danger to your system. If you remember a little while back where every business windows computer went down for a day due to the crowdstrike antivirus, that’s a potential result of kernal level software going bad.
So somewhat necessary evil, and they do kind of work. I personally don’t love solutions that eat performance like this, and privacy is a concern of mine, but also I kinda get it.
Thank you for the explanation. It’s kind of what I envisioned. I guess it doesn’t apply to me mostly since I haven’t played a PvP since rage quitting Overwatch a few years ago. Now I just play cooperative games with a buddy in the UK.
Or does it apply to me?
I avoid anything with kernel level anti-cheat. It is a theoretical attack vector - if the anti-cheat were somehow compromised, you’ve granted it low-level access to your system so whatever payload it is injecting would have that same level of access.
Even if you only play the single player part of a game the anti-cheat will be installed and running in the background.
They definitely can add anticheat to cooperative games, though again it feels a bit much.
I would say not to worry too much? The potential for abuse exists, but is not actually used. The companies that make the anti cheat software these days have way too much on the line to risk that kind of behaviour. It’s one of those things that it’s in a bit of a weird state, and some people like to keep an eye on it, but for the vast majority of cases is a minor inconvenience.
You think they don’t add anti-cheats to singleplayer/co-op?
So that we don’t cheat the game?
How can I know? Should I avoid those games?
That’s why this new feature is so great.
Take for example: Monster Hunter Wilds. It’s not popular AT ALL to mod/cheat the game. It never has been in any Monster Hunter. But the anticheat kept me from playing for about an hour on release, while I had to wiggle my way around it.
For whatever reason, they’re showing up everywhere now. It’s disgusting lmao
Sometimes it’s so they can sell the “cheats” to you as microtransactions instead.
From my understanding, it’s either client or server side software for online multiplayer games to try and prevent people from using 3rd party tools or hacks to gain an advantage from ruining the experience of other players. I can’t give a more technical answer, though, as to how it works. Someone else would have to provide that.
Thank you for the reply.
Essentially, most cheats for games work because the program can access the RAM addresses that the game uses. Anticheat works by scanning the computer for these running programs/services that are known to be cheats.
Historically this has been done in userspace, ie. no elevated permissions. Nowadays, Kernel level AC let’s the AC check for deeper cheating methods, like devices that are operating on a driver level.
Currently, the most difficult to detect method is cheating using a 2nd PC that connects via a cable to a special PCIe device in the gaming PC. It essentially analyzes everything going to RAM and plucks out game related info. It’s currently a back and forth trying to hide that PCIe device from the anti-cheat.
As a Linux gamer, that uses Proton to play games, I’m sure glad they did.
Makes it easy to figure out if I should bother buying the game or not.
Would not buy even when playing on Windows
The big issue is when they randomly add it in the future. You can’t buy games assuming they’ll continue to work.
Point taken, but, nobody can tell the future (if they could, they’d be in Vegas doing two shows a night).
You make your “best guess” purchasing decisions at a single point in time.
Yep, it’s something to consider when looking at multiplayer games and how “friendly” the developer/publisher has been in the past.
Rockstar, for example, has always been super shitty towards PC gamers.
Apex Legends was a bit of a surprise to me, and especially the doubling down with that stupid chart.
Some games with this on the store page run natively on Linux. Not sure how it works, does the Linux version just not use the anticheat?
Some anticheat works fine with Linux. I know whatever Hell Let Loose uses work fine with proton.
All the games I’ve played with anti-cheat software under Linux, exclusively run in userspace.
That’s (of the reasons) why you can’t consistently determine which ACS work: those that support Linux have to make the compromise of not running in kernel space (let alone as root), and sensibly let the developer choosing whether to allow such compromise.Wait, so they don’t need kernal-level access? Ridiculous.
Eh, userspace has some limitations that cheaters can circumvent more easily if they get their hands beyond it.
Kernel-space ACS is not going to stop you if you’re motivated enough, though, and at some point it becomes more of a hassle to deal with for the legitimate player than it is for the cheater.
Like those websites/services with password requirements so insane it’s actually difficult for you to cook up an actually good one.I don’t think I have a game with an anticheat but this really just sounds like a fun coding challenge.
Some games with this on the store page run natively on Linux. Not sure how it works, does the Linux version just not use the anticheat?
They may be a native Linux-supported game.
Otherwise, I know Easy Anti-Cheat is available on Steam for Linux, you install it just like if it’s its own game, then other games use it. I don’t know about any other anti-cheat software.
You can always check out protondb.com for info on a specific game.
Kernel Level Anti-Cheat is a security risk on Windows, plain and simple. It basically bypasses nearly anti-virus and gives game devs access to any and every part of the system. Bugs could lead to unfettered and persistent access for malware.
Additionally, it doesn’t work out of the box on Linux in wine (wine isn’t a windows kernel running on linux, so it most likely can’t work).
This is why especially Chinese publishers love it. Why bother hacking someone when the user will just voluntarily install a backdoor past all their security?
I’m sure it’s irrelevant for desktops. But Valve wants to push linux and publishers came up with the stupid excuse and disabled support by 1 mouse click. But now Valve has the steam deck with steamOS. So a platform can be provided for publishers. So yea its a good thing from valve telling publisher “fck ya for disabling Linux support”
When League of Legends introduced kernel-level anti-cheat it instantly killed the non-windows community and bricked a decent amount of systems. Posts about it where removed by moderators. It’s a scam.
There is a Capcom driver, I think it’s from street fighter, that can be used to escalate privileges in windows computers if you have the permissions to load drivers as a user.
@SeekPie I remember it’s quite recent. Probably to get back at Rockstar (and other kernel level abusers) for blocking Linux and therefore Steam deck users.
If they wanted to do that, they would have added a filter to hide games with kernel level anti cheat from the store.
