• MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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    5 days ago

    Okay. I just want to slam on the brakes here, just a little… Just a little slam.

    There’s a LOT of personal blame going around in these comments. As if everyone who ever had burned any fossil fuels ever is somehow personally responsible for everything that’s currently happening.

    Here’s some news, we’ve been burning shit for more than a millennia. People, in and of themselves, don’t require so much heat and energy to create a problem. At least not individually. As a whole, small problem. Individually, microscopic problem at most.

    Everyone seems to have fallen into this trap of everyone being personally responsible for the climate change. The vast majority of the issue is companies. Everyone wants to point at trucks and delivery vehicles and whatnot as major contributors when they do talk about contributions from companies, and you’re still way off base. It’s not even the air traffic that’s the problem. It’s the fucking boats. Nobody thinks about it, because nobody sees it. Either the boats are off at sea, or they’re docked in some yard, away from your vision. 90% of the time, they’re sailing. When they’re sailing, they’re operating the motors 24/7. Each ship, when operating, will consume more fuel in an hour than any one person would use in a year.

    Since it’s mostly unregulated international waters, who are they reporting any of that shit to? So they don’t.

    Yes. Climate change is real. Yes, we, personally, should be doing what we can to curb it. The fact is, if all of us did everything possible (switching to all renewable power, using EVs and all renewable powered appliances, etc) it would barely make a dent. All of the “personal responsibility” arguments are just a smokescreen from the big, very guilty corporations, to victim blame the public into turning on eachother so they can continue to destroy the environment unchecked. Based on these comments, they’re succeeding.

    I’m not saying to not be mad. Be mad, get angry. Just be mad at the right people here. I’m not evil because I drive my 1.5L 4cyl sedan to the grocery once a week, and have a natural gas water heater. Sure, I should change that, and I’m sure I will be changing that when I can, but I’m not the problem. The greenhouse gasses I emit over my lifetime won’t offset the emissions of transport ships in a single year.

    Just… Be mad at the right people. Stop making people feel bad for being given bad options because the automotive industry actively and knowingly rejected electric vehicles due to how deep they were with the oil industry. So people had to buy internal combustion vehicles because there literally was no other option at the time. I’ve had my car since 2014. In 2014, the model S (the only model at the time), was $70k USD to start. I didn’t have $70k USD to spend on a car (I still don’t). I spent less than one-quarter of that price on my vehicle, and I was barely able to afford it over a 5 year finance. Yet, based on these comments, I should be ashamed that I can’t afford a BEV? Or that I live too far from everything that I can’t ride a bike or something?

    Come on people. You know who is really at fault here. Let’s just be angry at the right people.

    • Moneo@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      For a start you could get active in local politics and support zoning reform. Car dependent infrastructure is a huge contributor to greenhouse gas emissions and I am not just talking about car exhaust.

      If we want to solve climate change we need to change our way of life, and that means ditching as many cars as possible.

      • secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        what? it’s too late for that.

        we are all actually going to die. changing a zoning rule? you think that’s going to help?

        if there’s an avalanche that is seconds away from enveloping you in snow and killing you, do you suggest walking a few steps to the side? it won’t do anything. the math is too much at this point to change with recycling a can or planting a tree. the only thing that will get the world to finally believe in math is massive amounts of death

        make peace with death, it’s coming for us all

      • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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        5 days ago

        I don’t disagree with you, having walkable infrastructure would be great.

        It just doesn’t really seem achievable in any meaningful way.

        A few hundred km from here a gargantuan hydrogen facility is being built - using solar to cracking hydrogen from sea water. It will take decades to build, and is a big undertaking.

        I offer the above as an example of something difficult but reasonably achievable.

        Lobbying local government to favour walkable infrastructure just doesn’t seem like a viable pathway to meaningful change in a reasonable time horizon.

        Yes I should take 15 minutes every election cycle to vote for the right person. Beyond that though my input wouldn’t be very valuable.

      • recapitated@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        I’m pretty sure the only way to solve this is by an extension of politics though another means. Are you ready?

      • nadram@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        TBH this is the answer. If govs are willing to sell themselves and all legislature to the highest bidder, then it’s time for mass protests, strikes, and molotovs.

        • secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          that could have changed the trajectory 50 years ago

          if people had been scientifically literate and recognized the problem

          it’s too late now

          this will happen when the pain of reality (regular temperatures in the 100s) overcomes the stupidity of religion, but there won’t be any going back

        • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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          5 days ago

          Gov isn’t selling itself to highest bidder though, at least not in the west and in terms of climate change. We have MASSIVELY reduced our carbon emissions and it’s gets better every year. We can decarbonise. We are decarbonising.

          The problem is partly that the west has emitted an epic fuckton already.

          And the problem is that Asia (and to some degree the Middle East, but mostly Asia) is going Hold My Beer™️ on our emissions and rapidly emitting as much as, or more than, the average westerner is doing.

          See for yourself.

  • TheFriar@lemm.ee
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    6 days ago

    I mean, I get the desperation. But drop everything and…do what?

    Calling for a massive strike is one thing. But just “drop everything” with no follow up is a weird reaction. It sounds way too much like, “drop everything and panic.” Not “sacrifice everything to try to save what we can of the livable world.”

    • kromem@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      Drop everything and enjoy life while it lasts.

      It may be shorter than you were planning on.

    • where_am_i@sh.itjust.works
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      6 days ago

      either travel until your last penny or buy a house in a very very remote location and stockpile enough food for a year or two. Continuing your life as usual and recycling your tin cans is the definition of insanity.

      • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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        6 days ago

        If your bucket list is “travel the world” then sure. If your bucket list is “enjoy a lot of chill times with my friends and family” then I don’t really know what you expect to change.

        I mean think of how many people know someone who died young and live with the very real knowledge that they could die at any moment, what do you expect them to change knowing that climate change might make life hard at some point in the next 2 - 100 years? Does that meaningfully change someone’s life when they already know that they could be killed in a car accident the next day?

      • secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        Do you think preparing for collapse now in a remote location is really the sensible thing to do? I sometimes wonder myself how fast it will happen. I think the planet will be uninhabitable within 300 years and chaos will ensue within 30 but i’m not sure the chaos will be without warning unless we hit an environmental tipping point and there’s sudden major temperature change (like earth becoming 20 degrees warmer or cooler within a week), which could happen.

        • butwhyishischinabook@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          A house in a remote location is insanely naïve. Rambo isn’t real life, if you want a snowball’s chance in hell of making it in that kind of a scenario you need to have group support. When the sea people came you didn’t want to be in major metros on the coast, but you also didn’t want to the the guy alone who became the lonely corpse in the countryside. There’s a happy medium where you have the best chances of survival. This is just delusional apocalypse porn.

          • ameancow@lemmy.world
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            6 days ago

            The vast majority of people who think they can survive an apocalypse with a backpack of tactical axes and MRE’s are delusional cosplayers. Even the people already out in the wilderness with gardens and animals and stockpiles of guns are woefully naive to how hard it would actually be to survive if the walmart they go to every week closes down.

            All that said, there is absolutely good that could come from investing in some cheap land further north. Not to become some kind of wild survivalist but to do exactly what you said, be a part of smaller communities that can band together and share resources. The hardships coming are not going to be like The Walking Dead, this shit is going to take years or even decades to ramp up, but that’s still lightning fast on a climate scale, meaning there will be storms on top of storms, inundated cities and coastlands, refugees swamping places that can’t handle it, and a lot of really hard times with a failing economy and shortages of everything from food to power to fresh water. We will slowly see a pretty major social shift in the first-world as people are displaced and the wealth divide becomes extreme, there will be shanty-towns on American and EU soil that rival the poorest countries. But yes, it will take a long time and there’s going to be an absolute mess of politics and economics and social upheaval through the entire time.

            And there’s no fixing it. This is the hardest part to sink into people. That it’s not a “rough patch” that this temperature increase is effectively permanent. No human is going to see the Earth cool back down unless someone does a major, rapid, and successful, geoengineering project. All things that are still more fantasy than remotely reality at this point.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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              5 days ago

              The PBS show Frontier House disabused me of any notion that it would be anything but insanely difficult to survive after societal collapse. Three families had to live as if they were in the 19th century in a valley in (I think) Montana over a summer to prepare for winter.

              None of them would have done it. Not even the couple who busted their ass and wouldn’t have had children to feed.

              • FollyDolly@lemmy.world
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                5 days ago

                I loved that show! Yep, I live pretty remote with guns and livestock and prepper stuff, but I still rely on stores, the grid and of course heathcare. I hold no illusions about how much I would suffer if society went down. Maybe I’ll live a month or two longer than someone totally unprepared but not much more.

        • ameancow@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          If you’re at all capable, purchase property up north. You can get acres of undeveloped land for a few thousand dollars. If you can, have an ongoing project to get some basic services set up on the land like a secure shed to cover a well and a solar kit. Get an RV or a van and just know that if shit falls apart you can drive out there and at least have water and power. Wireless or satellite internet would be a good idea.

          The coming disasters are going to take a number of years to ramp up, it will probably happen slowly enough that people will almost literally be the toad boiling to death as the heat slowly rises. It could be a few years, it could be a few decades. Whatever happens, it will happen and it will get worse. We’re going to see the most drastic change to our world that anyone has ever seen and a lot of people are going to suffer and it’s going to happen at the same pace which we read about school shootings, annoyance and impatience.

          Most of us won’t be able to afford land and even if we do move to cooler, less unstable areas, we still may have to deal with food shortages, economic crashes, and social instability. It’s not going to be like The Road, we’re not going into a sudden world of cannibals and post-apocalyptic fashion choices, it’s going to be a long slog through more and more discomfort, storms that don’t let up on coastal cities, political drama as people try to move or get federal help, refugees swamping places that can’t handle the numbers, authoritarians trying to seize power, crime and looting in the aftermath of storms, cities slowly becoming abandoned as the flood waters never get a chance to recede, as happened in some parts of New Orleans as long ago as Katrina.

            • ameancow@lemmy.world
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              5 days ago

              No, but again, I’m not talking about a hollywood drama here, this is real life, “collapse” is a thing that exists on a spectrum and can change radically depending on what the political powers do. Nations may restructure, there even may be fighting, but short of an actual nuclear holocaust it’s not likely that we’re going to see a scorched-earth wasteland.

              Everyone on both sides of this are really hyped to the extremes, but there is no telling how the next several decades may pan out, it’s not a bad idea to have some ideas that may benefit you, if you think you have better ideas for how to prepare, do share. If you are worried and hopeless and think nothing we do matters, that’s obviously not a great mindset to have, we have lifetimes ahead of us and people who are going to make it through, we have a responsibility still to try to do the best we can with what we have.

              edit: love that balanced and nuanced takes are making people seeth. Look, just believe whatever you want. The Earth doesn’t care and what’s going to happen will happen. If you rather believe it’s going to be exactly, 100% identical to the Fallout universe and you wanna imagine walking the wasteland, you do you, king.

    • Xerxos@lemmy.ml
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      5 days ago

      Well, the only thing that could reasonably help us would be to demolish the 1% and the corrupt politicians who support them. And yes, that would include an armed uprising.

      Not that that I see that happening unless it gets much worse. We still have (some) bread and games left to pacify the masses.

    • Maalus@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      Well, if everybody dropped everything then emissions would go to 0 soooo nothing I guess

    • phoneymouse@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      I will add another case of emergency food to my garage, finally get that Costco membership and buy some gold, and grab a bit more ammunition. Do some more research about buying land off the grid.

  • Kyrgizion@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    I do, but like most other people, I’m preoccupied with short term crises since, well, I need to survive those in order to be ready for the long-term ones.

    In my opinion though, we don’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell. The elite will manage to hang just a bit longer, but eventually they’ll cook and burn with the rest of us, or in their bunkers.

    Anyways, shit’s already fucked to the point that I’ve given up. Just sit back, relax and take whatever life gives ya.

    • xionzui@sh.itjust.works
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      6 days ago

      This is exactly the messaging of the oil companies and others who oppose climate action now that it’s too hard to deny. They want us to think it’s hopeless and give up trying to change anything. It’s not too late. Green energy is growing exponentially and has been possibly the fastest technological adoption in history. Millions of people are working on the science and technology to solve these problems. We just need some more collective action at the local and national levels. Carbon taxes, funding for green initiatives, local agriculture, and support for alternative transportation like e-bikes or other PEVs to start

      • Kyrgizion@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        Did you miss the memo that current AI is already using more power than everything we’ve managed to save with green energy in the last decade? We ARE fucked, the only thing we’re still debating is the exact timespan. Which is asinine, the result will remain the same either way.

        The only way I see to a path to salvation is a huge pandemic or world war, becausing nothing else will convince people. We’ve been trying (and failing) for decades.

        • w2tpmf@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          The only way I see to a path to salvation is a huge pandemic or world war

          Good news! The odds are looking pretty high for both of those!

        • rsuri@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          Carbon taxes fix the problem of using energy for dumb things. Climate change isn’t caused by us using energy, it’s caused by the fact that carbon pollution is free.

          • alsimoneau@lemmy.ca
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            4 days ago

            Because that power could have been used by someone else who’s depending on coal instead. You cannot separate power sources when on the grid.