So recently I’ve been seeing the trend where Android OEMs such as Google, Samsung, etc. have been extending their software release times up to like five, six, and seven years after device release. Clearly, phone hardware has gotten to the point where it can support software for that long, and computers have been in that stage for a very long time. From what I can tell, the only OEM that does this currently might be Fairphone.
Edit: The battery is the thing that goes the fastest so manufacturers could just offer new batteries and that would solve a lot of the problem.
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They could have always supported software for that long. They simply refused to.
There is no benefit to slowing the release cycle. All of the research gets done either way, all of the supply chain modifications get made either way, and as an individual you have no need to replace your phone every year. A multi-year release cycle does very little but screw over people who need a new phone during the wrong point in the release cycle, while also substantially complicating the supply chains by making demand much spikier.
Conservation wise there is a very big reason to slow down the release cycle
No, there isn’t. People who are buying new phones every year are trading them in, and they’re going to other people who are more price conscious.
Manufacturing several year old tech results in brand new hardware with a shorter life cycle. You’re not going to get 5 or 10 years of updates on a phone that was 5 years behind tech advancement when you bought it.
The people chasing novelty would do so by jumping manufacturers instead, so you don’t change their behavior at all.
And like you said, sometimes you need to replace a phone.
Maybe it was lost, or destroyed.
Compare with the yearly release cycle on cars.
People apparently use installment plans for phone purchases these days, along with a downstream used market, so it’s actually a really apt analogy.
That is kind of my thought. Phone technology doesn’t change drastically within two years and a car does not change drastically within two years.
But people are constantly buying millions of both, so makes sense to have small yearly updates and major revisions every few years.
Which is basically how both phones and cars are developed now.
Good points
Edit: Though there was the point in the early to mid-2010s where hardware was improving so rapidly that it would have been infeasible to not replace it as soon as possible.
It’s been time for like 10 years
The whole idea of making phones disposable was stupid from the get go. I’d say that most mid-tier phones from 2017 should be perfectly serviceable for every stupid app being widely used nowadays. High end phones from 7, 8 years ago are still perfectly fine
I mean, even power gamers barely need all the power that the high end phones offer, because mobile games always aim for the low end, with few exceptions.
That fucking Apple started with the stupid shit of gluing the phone, and every other fucking company copied that shit, really pisses me off. 2015 phones could have their backs opened and the battery changed if needed, no need for special tools.
Phones are unlikely to become open, as in owners can actually fuck around with the software and hardware as they’d like, anytime soon. A few try that, but it’s unlikely to become mainstream because there’s no market pressure
Yeah, up until about 2 weeks ago I was still using a Pixel 4. It was 5 years old but never felt slow at all.
Still rocking the Pixel3. Waiting on appleSE refresh
I just went with the $100 Motorola stylus (it has a built in stylus!) and just pay $4/month with 0% interest so I’m paying much less than $100 over two years. These cheaper phones usually hold up better to abuse than more expensive phones. I had the pixle 5a and the screen died just after two years (a known issue) screens for it are more expensive than $100 right now.
4*24=96, you’re probably paying exactly $100 over two years.
Not a huge savings, but still.
another way of looking at it.
What’s the NPV of 24 monthly $4 payments assuming a 4% annual rate of return?
At least $3.50
Who cares if they release a new one every year? Just buy a new phone when you actually need one.
Lots of people care because it creates e-waste.
If the culture changes so that all consumers act like that and forces the companies to change their production cycle, that would be a big boon for the environment.
Yep.
For about the past decade, I’ve only ever upgraded because the current broke (and beyond economic repair), or otherwise became untenable.
Using a refurb S10 now. The S8 prior had a bust screen. Only had that because I needed it to play nice with Bluetooth LE hearing aids. Probably my only recent upgrade that went from one working phone to another.
Tend to only buy flagships, as they are better supported by alternative software - good if they live long enough to age out of official updates.
I know a shocking amount of people who will buy the new iPhone every single year, so from Apple’s POV why would they ever not release a ‘new’ phone.
Mark Gurman, who’s normally dead on the money when it comes to Apple, thinks they’re unlikely to keep up annual releases (though I should note the linked article suggests the new iPhone model schedule is unlikely to change for now).
Just don’t buy one every year? We get new car models every year based on improvements in technology why not phones? You don’t have to buy one every year, nobody is forcing you
I have never bought a new phone every year…
I tend to use mine until it’s EOL or until the battery is unusable.
So far I normally get 4-5 years out of my phones.
I usually buy high end devices, that tend to last 4-6 years. I usually choose by camera, battery, and charging speed. I’m currently on a 4 year old Xiaomi that has an great camera, the battery still last over a day, charges 5000 mAh in slightly over an hour. I have never broken a screen or lost a phone in over 30 years. I buy the latest and greatest to make sure my investment lasts.
I tend to buy the last years iPhone when I get a new phone, it is cheaper and has less bugs.
I am still on the iPhone 12 mini
Makes sense from manufacturing and business perspective to refresh your offer every year. It doesn’t have to be a huge improvement, but technology slowly advances, there might be a better or cheaper manufacture for some components, etc.
On the other hand there no reason for any individual to be buying a new phone so often. Software support must be a thing - there’s no reason for a phone to become obsolete after 2 years because of the software. It’s a computer, you can update the OS almost indefinitely.
Just this month I finally moved off my 2017 flagship… Only because my cell provider stopped supporting it (for no fucking reason).
I was running the latest version of Lineage too. Thing was great. It did need a battery (which I may still replace for about $7).
Retail stores rarely carry a phone older than two years, as long as they push new phones every year, people will be buying those phones.
OEM’s could have like 3 battery types, mass produce these 3 and offer battery replacement for maybe 30 bucks or less? OEM’s could have like 3 phone designs and update the internals, making each screen replacement maybe 50 bucks or less? Instead each has unique screen, motherboard, subboard and battery combo. My 10y/o nokia has the same battery as a new one, they cost like 5 bucks each.
Needless to say I love the EU for bringing back user serviceable batteries, that’s a great start.
Clearly, phone hardware has gotten to the point where it can support software for that long, and computers have been in that stage for a very long time
I’m not sure what you mean by this. Software supports hardware, not the other way around. You could run the latest android on any powerful enough hardware. The only limit is the porting effort
For example, the samsung galaxy s4 was released in 2013 with android 4 and the latest official version for it is android 5
The lineageos folks however have been - until recently - maintaining android 11 (and previous versions) for it, afaik fairly easly. The only reason they don’t have newer android versions for the s4 is that android 12 depends on a kernel feature which samsung’s ancient official version doesn’t have. The lineageos folks could in theory reverse engineer the proprietary drivers and maintain a more up to date kernel for the s4, but they simply don’t have the manpower
Samsung tho? They easily could support modern android versions on this 2013 phone, but they won’t for the same reason they made batteries non-removable: they don’t want you to use old hardware, they want you to buy a new phone every year
I typed this on my 2018 phone (oneplus 6) running android 14 (the latest official version is android 11)
eyo, another oneplus 6 user! It’s nice having a headphone jack on a phone. I run PostmarketOS on mine for virtually infinite software updates.
How does the postmarket OS work? Is it pure Linux? Does it support android apps?
Yes, it pure linux and is based on Alpine linux often used in Docker Containers. Many supported devices run an upstream kernel instead of the old manufacturer one that comes with android. Android apps can work though waydroid, though I have not used apps that require google play services, though I did get that working on my laptoo.
Nice. I actually installed postmarketOS last year for fun. How is it nowadays? Last time I tried it, the camera didn’t work, I didn’t manage to set up Waydroid, most non-GTK apps didn’t adapt well to a phone, and afaik there were no push notifications (which was a big deal for me because having an app always running in the background made the battery drain much faster). Also what interface do you use? I used Gnome with mobile patches
Actually, apparently the pixel3a now has both front and rear camera support, though still in the very early stages. I also like how the pixel3a has a plastic back instead of the glass on the OP6 so it does not shatter if you drop it.
I also like how the pixel3a has a plastic back instead of the glass on the OP6 so it does not shatter if you drop it.
Yeah, same. That’s one of the 2 main things I don’t like about the OP6 (the other being the non-removable battery). Putting a protective case on it solves the problem though
The OP6 is already so big that it’s quite the brick with a case. I’m hoping that the people working at Fairphone can get PostmarketOS running reasonably well on their devices considering PostmarketOS aligns pretty well with their goals.
Not much has changed since then. I use Phosh since as beautiful as gnome mobile is, it lacks some functionality.
Manufacturers frustrate os replacement on purpose. The vast majority of phones cannot have their os changed by the user. Lineageos is a niche effort for ultraniche phones.
True. It’s kinda crazy that nowadays most phones don’t have an official way to unlock the bootloader
I discovered that after buying 60 of my favourite phone, the 2018 moto z3. I figured I could mod it endlessly and use it for all my project. Nope, bootloader locked and I can’t even root the damned thing !
I don’t think there would be any advantage in stopping yearly releases.
I think individuals should stop buying new phones often and that you should still be able to use a 15 year old phone just like you can use a 15 year old computer without security risks (with Linux).
That’s what the system or laws should encourage.
Well 15 years won’t quite work as well due to cell frequency changes and the occasional fundamental software changes, but people could really stand to keep their phones for like 5 years no problem. New stuff coming out isn’t usually “revolutionary” most of the time. AI isn’t cool enough to want right now, and picture stuff only ever gets a minor improvement. Same for battery life or screen quality.
Do people really buy new phones every year? I keep mine for a minimum of 4-5 years and always have. I had one for so long that it was no longer supported and I was forced to upgrade.
I guess I just never paid attention to how often other people get new phones, but every year seems excessive.
I’d say every other year is pretty close to average.
Well we can use computers, consoles and TV’s which are 15 years old everyday and still connected to the internet.
I know it’s not doable right now, but I think we should change the way we consume and get rid of technology.
And I’m not talking about a car that you can use for way more than 15 years reliably.
I don’t even understand the concern here: why shouldn’t manufacturers have a yearly release cycle? Technology continues to change and there’s value in continuing to improve. I also don’t understand how better software support means less hardware improvement.
If you mean “a consumers yearly purchase cycle”, then yeah. Long since. It’s such a huge waste of money for incremental value and always was. Don’t get caught up in the hype or be manipulated by marketing. It always made more sense to upgrade on your terms
The annual cycle is quite nice from a buyer’s perspective too, when I need a new phone I’ve got a reasonable idea that Google aren’t going to release a new device in a couple of months and leave me feeling shafted.
Very true. In contrast, I’m fed up with Firestick and am interested in trying AppleTV instead. But that device is two years old. I’m not in a hurry to buy, so that means I’m on the sidelines as I waited for the Spring announcement, then the summer announcement, then the fall announcement, and a new model never came. Now I’m getting stubborn: there must be a new version coming soon. If I knew when to expect any update, Apple would likely already have my money
The vendors like you to buy a new phone every year so that they can get more money from you.
When they advertise that “only our latest product has smart thingy, or picture erase, or circle to search”, they’re really telling you that they are trying to find a reason for you to throw perfectly good hardware away so that you can spend more money.
If the software lasts that long, and it’s doing what you need, there’s no reason you have to buy a new phone each year.
Every time you keep your phone a bit longer instead of buying a new one, you’re reducing the waste that goes to landfill (let’s be honest, most people throw their obsolete electronics literally in the trash rather than direct them to approved recycling and disposal).
Since everyone here has the big brain idea of telling you you’re dumb for not just buying a phone every couple years (completely missing the point of what you were asking), I’ll take a minute to actually answer your question.
Yes. Annual refreshes are way too frequent for technology this mature. Slowing it to every other year instead (maybe software releases on odd years, hardware on even?) would dramatically reduce costs and improve stability. Changes would have time to be thoroughly rested and implemented, and they’d get more use out of the same design (including components, molds, tooling, etc.). It would actually be better for manufacturers too, in that it would be more efficient (they’d make slightly less money, but with significantly less work and investment), but they would never do it. Manufacturers don’t succeed by being good at what they do, they succeed by manipulating the meta. Regular releases keep your brand on people’s minds. Timing your announcements and making a big deal about it makes a huge difference (everyone wants to be the hot thing in Q4 so people buy them for Christmas), and brands don’t want to miss an opportunity.
The annual cycle is a marketing tactic. And it honestly works, so I think it’s probably here to stay.
I didn’t really have any reason to listen to them because I already do not buy a new phone every year and keep them for as long as I can.
OEMs only recently started offering 5+ years of security fixes. Two years was common until just 6 years ago. Apple got a lot of crap for not supporting older models but the truth is they supported longer than anyone else and only cut support when the hardware literally couldn’t take it. Yet everyone ignored that most android makers might not even release a single update much less more than the two years worth needed to cover a phone for a two year contract.
I don’t like saying that because I can’t stand apple devices. But it’s what happened. Then the EU started getting involved. They hated all this ewaste caused by people constantly upgrading. IT security people were speaking up too because phones were a complete risk with people using them for work but not getting updates that stopped them from being owned. It was getting bad for OEMs from multiple angles and they needed to act before the US government made them. And all those factors are the only reasons we are just now seeing all phones come with 5+ year plans.
As right to repair laws get integrated into new releases we will actually be able to take advantage of these 5+ year plans because we will be able to replace the batteries that are normally useless after three years.
I wish most phones had a battery saver option that would stop charge at 80% unless you manually overrode it each and every time you wanted to go over. This would dramatically cut down on the need to replace batteries.
But here is the rub. Even if you convince the majority logically that their phone is still good at year three they are going to upgrade at year two when the phone is paid off. The people that use phones as an identity and brand marker are still going to upgrade as fast as new devices come out.
And devices are going to continue to come out yearly. If you don’t ship a new flagship product each year then shareholders will revolt. There must always be something new for the customer. Technology moves fast. If you are an OEM not releasing then you are an OEM that isn’t keeping up.
All these forces of market, psychology, legal and repairability and more fight each other to create a situation where most people will upgrade in two years or less. Only a small portion of people will ever try to get 5+ years out of a device. Even the population trying to get 3 years will be two standard deviations out of the majority. Even if the battery is replaceable and the security patches keep coming.
By the way, I am not sure if it is a standard function of lineage OS, a standard function of Android 13 and above, or something with lineage OS on my specific OnePlus device. But I am able to limit my charge to 80% and it will never charge above that unless I turn it off. I bought the phone brand new and have been using that function since day one and it works extremely well.
