Summary
Dutch pension fund Stichting Pensioenfonds ABP sold its $585 million Tesla stake over concerns about Elon Musk’s “controversial and exceptionally high” pay package and unspecified labor conditions.
ABP previously voted against Musk’s performance-based compensation, which has faced shareholder lawsuits and judicial scrutiny.
A Delaware judge recently invalidated the pay package, citing insufficient shareholder approval.
While Tesla’s Model Y remains popular in the Netherlands, European sales fell 15% in 2024.
ABP stated the divestment was not politically motivated despite Musk’s ties to the Trump administration.
Divested
A Delaware judge recently invalidated the pay package, citing insufficient shareholder approval.
I don’t know if this is the article (its pay walled), or AI since it’s a summary, or maybe OP, but this is a terrible reporting of what happened.
The pay package was supposed to be independently created by the board, but it was found out that Elon had a heavy hand in proposing it, including the people helping him craft it. Now, I don’t think this is bad per say, but then the board was supposed to independently vet it, but the board wasn’t really deemed independent, and who they used had ties to Musk. Further, it wasn’t properly disclosed what involvement Musk had in crafting the package in the first place.
The failure to properly disclose all of this made the shareholder vote void. Had they disclosed it, and had it been approved, it would have been okay.
It had nothing to do with not having insufficient shareholder approval.
One more problem was that the various milestones had projections for likelihood and time to completion, but what they presented to the shareholders was different than their internal projections.
So not only did they think some of these milestones were likely, they lied to shareholders about how likely they were to make the package seem more difficult to achieve.
I knew (but forgot) they thought the 1st one was likely and didn’t disclose it, was it others as well?
I forget the exact number, but it was the first few. Maybe 3?
*per se
TIL, thanks.
Paying someone a billion dollars or more at a company should require unanimous shareholder approval. One nay should strike it down. It’s egregious and unnecessary.
A billion dollars can buy you a hundred people at 10 million a piece, that’s gonna get you a shitload of celebrity involvement and endorsement. The value of the shares in this asshole’s pay package is over 100 billion as of early December.
The shareholders chose to do it, it’s their company, they can do whatever they want with it (as long as they weren’t misled as the judge has ruled they were).
Trying to control what the shareholders do with their company like that is not the way to solve a problem. And if you don’t own any voting shares, then you have no reason to complain about what they decide to do.
The payment comes out of their pocket, by the devaluation of their stock, when the options are issued and vested. They went into it knowing they’d make a shit load of money if he pulled it off, and he’d make a shit load of money too. The stock has 25x’d since the package was created.
Edit: Just to be clear here - A better way would be through a high tax bracket that would eat the vast majority of that away forcing him to sell most of the shares (or I guess alternatively sell SpaceX shares, it’d be his choice), but keep in mind it’d be at the rate when each set vests, so it’s not a tax bill on 55b, it’s a series of tax bills on smaller amounts.
Because it’s massively over-valued, the board is a bunch of Musky Bro-hoes (also sometimes family…) signing off whatever the fuck Musk says; while it’s being led by a Ketamine-addled Nazis with the emotional development of a child.
Why anyone still holds Tesla, is beyond me.
Some people truly believe in Musk and the brand. Those people are dipshits, but if you excluded dipshits from your market predictions, you would always be wrong.
But pension funds have a responsibility to go long, and while Tesla may rise or fall on Musk’s digital bowel movements, volatility is the problem.
Musk’s digital bowel movements
Even taking them into account, long term likely would never pay off. It’s valued way over what they’d be worth if they took over the entire vehicle industry, and that’s not going to happen. Sure, for gambling maybe it’s worth it to speculate on, but for a long-term investment it’s horrible.
See I don’t get I the value is based on some future that they think Tesla can get to. So what happens if it got there the stock would stay this price?
Stocks, and really anything, is worth exactly the intersection of what someone is willing to pay and what the person who has it is willing to accept. You can make valuations based on profits and growth and liabilities, but those are estimates to help professionals determine what they are willing to pay or accept. If some dolt is willing to pay more, then that’s what it is worth for that transaction.
If the stock goes up in value, some people will sell. There’s a natural balance to the curve, as the faster a stock rises, the more people will sell and this will bring the price back to earth. This is why the diamond hands strategy of Game Stop investors was so confounding. People weren’t buying for profit, they were buying to fuck over short selling hyenas. But that’s a whole nother can of worms.
The point is, if people believe it will go up, they will buy. More buyers means the price goes up, so that can have a compounding effect, and they feel good about their decision. When people think it’s gone high enough, they sell, which makes the price go down, and they feel good about their decision.
The stock market is as much paychology as it is economics. Precicting what humans will do and then doing it first is the real magic of investing. And with Muskeegee Airhead, there’s no way to predict what he will do. That’s why risk averse investors are moving away.
Diamond hands makes more sense when you think of it as something people were encouraging holders of the stock to do rather than something they were intending to do themselvee
There are people like my younger brother who believe that Musk is a pure genius, likes Bezos a lot, and is entirely sold on the idea that billionaire philanthropy is somehow a good and positive thing for regular people.
christians in particular like to imagine that god blesses those who are “good” with wealth, and that therefore wealthy people must be “good” because otherwise they wouldn’t be wealthy.
This then gets absorbed into more secular thought with “well they’re successful so they must be skilled”.
Truth is, his daughter-grooming daddy owned an emerald mine in Apartheid South Africa and got his seed-money from that. So he’s neither “good” nor particularly “skilled.”
christians in particular like to imagine that god blesses those who are “good” with wealth, and that therefore wealthy people must be “good” because otherwise they wouldn’t be wealthy.
It’s just Calvinism (if you are rich, that means god loves you), and Calvinism is baked into most protestant denominations.
Really Calvin and his beloved “Protestant work ethic” are behind the rise of capitalism. Look it up. Max Weber wrote about it in “The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism”
no it’s not. Calvin might have been a huge proponent of it in his particular brand of douchery, but the concept goes as far back as- for example- Job. This is why Job is so confused about why god wrecked his life… he was a good and faithful person. The story of Job tweaked it so that wealth “wasn’t always”… (even if god did give him everything back again for being a good sock puppet.)
The real moral of Job, though, is that god is a raging fucking narcissist. (“you wouldn’t understand. you’re incapable of understanding. only I can understand.”)
the core tenet of Calvinism is rather that salvation is inevitable- it derives from god’s choice, rather than any willful act by humans. The other side of that, is of course, that humanity is irrevocably fucked without that “salvation”, and that only by submission can good things come to you. (again, this is raging narcissism.)
I was under the impression that the lesson of job was that families are fungible assets
That…wasn’t a lesson that needed to be taught. Back then you could buy a family for 50 goats. 20 if she had hit puberty.
The “point” of Job was to tackle the problem of evil. There-presumably- a rash of Bronze Age peeps asking “if god is good and unfaithful, why does bad shit happen to me” that needed addressing.
It does it through a sock-puppet story every bit as cringeworthy as the God’s Not Dead series. (Can you believe they made 5 movies?!), of which the final explanation, when Job demands one, is “who the fuck are you to question me?! You wouldn’t fucking understand, because I’m so fucking great”
Basically, god massively gaslights the shit out of job and, in typical sock puppet fashion licks the jackboot of the guy who killed off his family, his livelyhood and wellbeing.
That’s funny, because prosperity gospel is just there to indiscriminately wrench away money from the most desperately impoverished people imaginable. To think, it’s doing double work by lionizing oligarchs. It’s the purest form of evil, if you ask me.
it’s not even prosperity gospel- that isn’t about being good. Just that god will make you rich if you make Joel Osteen and his ilk rich.
Funny how that doesn’t work. (and yes… it’s fucking evil.)
The way Osteen and the other demons justify their wealth is that God appointed it to them.
sold on the idea that billionaire philanthropy is somehow a good and positive thing for regular people.
He’s not wrong, but he’s judging occasional donations to particular issues as neither ineffective, incomplete, nor completely toxic to direction of research, because he judges them in a vacuum and/or against a fake goal-post of ‘no research funding’ instead of 'broad research funding based on income tax that rich fucks would have paid in a world before Reagan dropped the bottom out '.
The mating habits of cannabis-injected left-handed greater eastern blue potter’s snails will get no money from rich fucks, DESPITE its follow-on application to cancer cure research based on the secretion rate inprovement and or testing options derived from massive population explosions with a kill switch.
I don’t understand why people mention the ketamine. If he truly did a lot of ketamine he’d be far nicer. It gives a dreamy feeling where your opinions on matters are much more down to earth. You don’t overthink and live more in the moment. If anything, Muskyboi should do a lot more ketamine.
That is complete nonsense, ket can make you a enraged, confused dumbass after chronic use, I’ve seen it happen.
Enraged? Lmao. That seems to be the only nonsense that’s been posted here. I’m not even going to entertain that misinformation. Whatever person you saw become a dumbass was already destined to be a dumbass, and the ketamine did not help.
Confused I’ll confirm, although mostly from an outside perspective. Ketamine is considered a dissociative because there’s no loss of awareness. It dissociates awareness from body, creating new perspectives. How one reacts to that is up to the person themselves, it doesn’t alter that. From what I’ve seen it’s either no change or personal growth.
I’m saying this because mentioning ketamine is just anti-drug mentality and has nothing to do with how he is as a person. I don’t like the new Muskyboi, but mentioning something most people here know absolutely nothing about is just bad taste.
Drugs don’t change people. Plenty of murderers smoke weed, and no sane person arguing in good faith would say weed makes you violent.
I know hundreds of ketamine users. I have been in legal drug education and have a lot of personal experience too.
Drugs do not change behavior, but perspective does. Psychedelics and dissociatives alter perspective, and it’s a fact that people alter their behavior depending on their perspective.
Muskyboi has a huge ego, most likely because of some grandeur perspective. But that’s the opposite of the perspective one has on ketamine.
Yes psychedelics change perspective but you can still be a cunt. It’s not a silver bullet unfortunately otherwise we’d have been in utopia after the 1960s.
As Bron so eloquently stated in Game of Thrones: “There’s no cure for being a cunt.”
So do you just not believe all of the various people who have watched or done Ketamine with him?
His own friends say that he microdoses Ketamine daily and macrodoses at parties.
I’m saying mentioning ketamine is useless and its impact on Musk is meaningless. The amounts he’s taking are either too small to be mentioned, or not high enough to drop that stupid nazi perspective.
I think ketamine is an absolutely amazing substance with a lot of positive psychological effects, but mentioning it when talking about Muskyboi and Nazis is useless. It doesn’t change the man. He just likes to do it, who cares?
Have you tried taking ketamine well be the richest person on the planet and thinking you are the smartest?
Oh. I get you know, and I agree. He would be the same racist prick with or without substances.
Set and setting matter a lot, as does intent going into things with the drug. Ketamine can offer perspective and help you become a better person, that doesn’t mean it always does.
When Elon Musk does drugs, do you think he goes into it looking for enlightenment, or looking to party?
This seems like a massive and ultimately incorrect generalization.
Weed doesn’t have to reliably turn the worst murderers in society into community serving pacifists every single time in order to be effective and worthwhile. That’s just perfect being the enemy of good.
Like another reply said, drugs can change perspective which is how people change themselves. It certainly worked for me with both weed and ketamine (both legally sourced with medical providers involved, and only several times total with the ketamine).
The problem is generalizations. I’ve seen people get extremely paranoid on weed. Everyone is different.
Absolutely. Likewise, prescribed medications for mental heath vary by individual and they are essentially trial and error with some educated guessing by your doctor.
It doesn’t change the core being is my point. You can’t take an evil person and make them good with drugs, and you can’t take a good person and make them evil with drugs. They just amplify or shift perspective, but they don’t introduce anything from the outside into the person who uses them.
The only reason to hold Tesla right now is political. Do you believe Musk can continue sucking Trump’s dick to profits? It’s plausible…
Their cars are trash in the global market. China is owning everyone in the EV market. Domestically, they’re not a bad buy used, but for their sticker price there’s much more compelling options out there. The cybertruck is one of the worst products in automotive history. It’ll be mentioned with the Pinto as far as engineering failures go.
It’s not necessarily political, wall street can be very clueless about technology. They all seem to believe they can judge the potential of just about any company, no matter how complex the industry, by merely watching a video of the CEO speaking and judging how smart they sound. Perceived potential can also be self-reinforcing because the more prominent a business figure gets, the more wall street reporters and influencers want to be associated with them - so they’re careful to only praise them and not piss them off. So they can easily be duped by an Elizabeth Holmes/Adam Neumann type who has a strong voice and even stronger connections and promises the moon for a small investment.
Musk’s key innovation was taking that a step further and promising them Mars.
Their cars are trash in the global market.
Not true
Ok their cars are trash no matter where they are. They have so many QC issues.
Ironically, the international versions, made in China, are of a higher quality.
Musk opposed Biden’s EV incentives because he wants to move everything to China
Them being ahead is a reason to invest in Tesla
I sold all my shares 3-4 years ago.
There are just better ways to invest that money.
I am, in my complete nativity, hoping Tesla would fire Musk and just become a normal car manufacturer. But suppose this is a far cry. But one can hope
Board of directors is not going to tank their Tesla stock by removing him. There is a reason Musk appointed people who are indebted to him.
Go on Europe!
The Dutch see the writing on the wall. Scroll down…the topic went from Tesla, Musk Digital Bowel Movement to Ketamine…
https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NASDAQ/TSLA/short-interest/
Short positions are increasing.
At the end of the day Tesla is a bubble that will pop at some point, Musk’s latest antics are only going to accelerate that.
A pension fund typically avoids risky investments, so this plus the shorting increase is a pretty strong signal that investors think the pop is imminent.
You might be right, but as someone who used to short, the odds are stacked against you.
First, inflation is always pushing stocks up. Second, it gives TSLA an opportunity to short squeeze. Third, you’re tying up your money that could instead go into an always-increasing market.
People have been trying to short Tesla for half a decade. Eventually someone will make money, but it’s far from worth it
True, indeed. Although, in terms of whole stock market, the recent ralley has run out of steam. I think it might be a good short opportunity once this downtrend gets confirmation. Dunno about tesla specifically, though.
The stock market won’t crash since money will just be printed to keep it up. Even if the purchasing power of your stock worth goes down, there’s no better place to keep your cash
I mean, it will still get correction at some point. Doubt FED wants to keep printing money, either.
At this point what will happen id anybody guess. The incoming president is unlikely to listen to the experts long enough to knowingly do the opposite of what they say, much less follow their recommendations.
Sure but Teslas stock is not tied to the value of the company at all.
Can you help me understand the link you posted? Because when I load it it shows a 16% decrease in sold shorts.
It’s just time to cash. Remember when he bought twitter and the Tesla stock crashed. Yeah they are afraid it will happen again because he’s too busy fucking up the US government.
There’s only one way the valuation can go, down.
They make luxury cars in an economy that seems to be heading for a recession in a political climate full of people who would rather roll coal than buy an ev, and the pro-ev people have been completely alienated by the guy’s politics.
The writing is on the wall, it’s just a matter of time before people see it. Dumpy may give the guy a pile of cash, but odds are that would be through SpaceX or another business, not Tesla.
Remember that for them to sell over half a billion dollars worth of stock, somebody (many people) bought it. Probably it was the other major stockholders that were ok with Musk’s pay.
It’s not always a good thing when the one sensible voice goes “fuckit. I’m out”.
Institutional investors like pension funds selling a stock is kind of a big deal though, as a) there are a lot of them for a stock as “big” as Tesla, b) they are far less risk averse then individual investors, and c) the managers of these funds tend to pay attention to what other funds with similar holdings are doing. If one this big sells, others will wonder if they should get out now as well.
This could, in theory, be the start of a mass selloff of Tesla stock by institutional investors wanting to get out before the bubble bursts and they stop seeing gains from Tesla stock.
They didn’t want to be caught holding the hot potato when the music stops.
The fact that someone else is willing to take that risk (or doesn’t see that risk) doesn’t mean too much in the big picture.
So much depends upon a hot potato
In the financial industry they call retail investors dumb money. Probably lots of dumb money bought the stock. Also they didn’t sell everything in one day. They probably spread it acrosss weeks so it wouldn’t affect the stock price too much
Seems only a downside for those owning stock.
They have more power now.
So someone bought it…
Of course someone bought it… it wouldn’t be worth anything if there weren’t any buyers.
maybe it’s someone like saudi sovereign fund, they like burning piles of cash on overhyped failures like when they gave money to softbank
Likely sock-puppets for oligarchs trying to prop up the stock value under the weight of sell-offs.
Yeah people from the Elon cult.
The opposite of this is exactly what Meta and big tech companies depend on: as long as we are raking in money, the process doesn’t matter.
